Federico Makabenta (yenm@iconn.com.ph)
Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:33:23 +0800


This is OT now. My last say is here.

Back to where we started:

It was the Kou carrot scene alone that was reviewed in Stardust - one of the
least groundbreaking scenes in Gundam for heaven's sake. Imagine what kind
of comments they would have made had they only seen the Final Episode of the
battle between Neue Ziel and the Orchis.

Btw, I personally don't think Gwing has the best animation quality for a TV
show in the world. And we are NOT talking about Cowboy Bebop or Gatekeepers
or anime in general - as the reviewers only got to see the Gundam Wing mecha
scenes and that Stardust scene.

Also, the critic viewed Episode 48 in its entirety - and I think personally
that Gundam's real backbone is story. Whereas you have two animators who
only saw snippets.

These are the parameters we're dealing with. We are not talking about
General Anime. Just snippets that were reviewed by two animators. :)

From: garrick lee <goner4sure@yahoo.com>

> huh? exactly how have i been proven wrong?

"they speak of weight and movement and illusion of
life, shadows and muscle...but disney and warner
brothers animation never had those. "

A sweeping generalization at least to me. Please study and watch Fantasia,
Snow White and especially Tarzan plus some other Disney flicks available for
rent on a videostore. You'll find that shadows and muscle are definitely
part of their repertoire. Illusion of life is too abstract to argue on - and
in fact I feel this is the root of our disagreement.

> sorry, i think i've been proven right. to hear those
> egghead critics bash anime for its lack of knowledge
> on muscles and weight is utter crap. disney drew
> tarzan physique with as much exaggerated and CARTOONY
> (mis)proportion of the human anatomy as anime does.

Really? Try watching the Limited DVD edition of Tarzan and its "making of"
sequences to show how much they've actually integrated human anatomy into
him. Misproportions occured in some of the action scenes but that was to
suit some of the extreme angles they took. Look at the Leopard sequence
again.

And don't tell me misproportions don't occur in anime. They do, they're in
fact masters of cheating in animation. I think its more your eye got
conditioned to watching anime as a standard form like those of the animators
who watched what they do as a standard form. Anime heads are larger than
most human heads, but why do they do it? My best guess is to catch the eye.

> as far as weight is concerned, i've seen better
> representations of weight in the old 80's NON-DISNEY
> cartoons than disney movies (albeit some of them are
> rotoscope animation...which purist animators probably
> disdain...but it's not like i give a rat's patoot).

Rotoscope ironically didn't work for LOTR movie to general audiences btw.
Hmm, there must be something about eye conditioning to a medium - so that
the moment you change the medium like when animated features with CG like
Titan A.E. or Reboot come along, there's a process of familiarization before
accepting it as standard.

I think it's the same for Anime/Western animation conflict we're having now.
I have heard several arguments on the Western vs. Anime debate before. Half
of the evidence is bogus on both sides actually. I just feel its safer to
let the audience decide where they want to stick to.

> i quite frankly cannot believe you're defending these
> critics, fed. their airheaded comments are about as
> indefensible as it gets.

For the Record: I am not defending them.

To reiterate:

As I said, I hang around artists a lot. There's a different mentality at
work right there. I'm sympathetic that they can't adequately explain their
side. Like when my artist friends start to explain more about why they feel
American comic book style is still better than manga say. Ask them to write
all that information down, and it's definitely going to raise some eyebrows.
Ask questions in a conversation and I'm telling you its going to clear up
the hot air quickly.

You know how it is when you know someone who can't explain something and how
you feel you should do it for him. :)

I don't pretend to know as much as they do about animation, neither should
others. My only point is that it may be because they can't express
themselves adequately and is the cause of our heads heating up right now.

Very unreasonable defenses have been made to for the cause of anime too. I
think we know some examples without mentioning them.

Its quite funny that animated features like Power Puff Girls, Wacky Racers,
Batman and others have become big hits in Japan. Some of them don't have the
so-called realistic quality that people here espouse. Does it say something
that Americans do know something of the medium that the Japanese don't? Also
the Japanese collectively call all animation "anime" and don't seem to have
qualms about where its from.

BTW, we are arguing on differences of our own opinion now and not of the way
the animators saw the Gundam scenes.

this is not a bias on my
> part as an anime fan.

Neither is it mine as someone who appreciates Disney animation a lot. My
bias here is towards artistic sensibilities and how artists rarely have the
ability to convey it on paper.

>please explain to us exactly how comments like the
>following quotes are a matter of communication
>problems:

Appreciate the challenge. But quite frankly, I don't think I need to unless
you people email or inquire to these people in a very reasoned manner to get
an explanation for the answers. We can speculate all we want.

Besides, they only got to see three scenes. Not even an episode. Just three
scenes. Let me go back to that. I'm pretty sure that the animators here
aren't biased to Japanese animation in general. The Disney staff have come
out publicly in worship of Hayao Miyazaki before, and Disney is the industry
standard. (still doesn't explain the Lion King's Ki---err--- Simba) I don't
think these animators are any less reasonable. They only saw three scenes. I
don't expect them to know all anime right?

Fed

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