L. M. Lloyd (ubik@austin.rr.com)
Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:48:38 -0600


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Oh come on! I have been on this mailing list since long before Wing
even aired in America, and I have never seen any "bashing" at all! In
fact, what I have mainly seen recently, is Wing fans characterizing
anyone who doesn't like Wing as some sort of Troll. There are 20
years of Gundam. Of that 20 years of Gundam, most people don't
particularly care for ZZ, G, V or W, but you don't see endless
debates about how much ZZ bashing goes on.

For God sakes people, get over your thin skins! Just because someone
else doesn't like a show that you do like, that does not make them
some kind of villain, just waiting to crush you. Believe it or not,
someone can dislike Wing, or any other series, for reasons that have
nothing at all to do with your ego!

I decided ten years ago that Gundam had pretty much run out of steam
creatively, and have spent the past ten years being pleasantly
surprised every once in a while, but for the most part feeling like I
pretty much hit the nail on the head. How long are Gundam fans going
to have to walk on eggshells, so as not to hurt the feelings of the
fans of a show that is over five years old? Wing originally aired in
Japan quite a while ago, so instead of getting all bent out of shape
about all the hardcore Gundam fans who don't like your favorite show,
why don't you stop and question why it is that a lot of people, who
have had five years to decide what they think of the show, still
don't like it.

I am constantly seeing comments about "UC elitists," but the fact is
that a large number of these supposed "UC elitists" have seen more
Gundam shows(AC and UC), than the rest of the American public. If
someone has been a fan of a show for twenty years, they have every
right to feel they know the series a little better than someone who
only started watching the show a year ago. There is this omnipresent
implication that all the "UC people" never gave Wing a chance, and so
are unfairly biased against it, and those who watch it. I have yet to
see anyone really take into account that "UC people" have had YEARS
to decide what they thought about Wing.

You talk about intolerance and pettiness, but then you imply that
being tolerant and magnanimous means not voicing any opinions that
cast Wing in a bad light! How petty is that?

I have never once been involved in any UC vs. AC debate, but I am
getting sick of seeing this constant Gundam Wing, false martyrdom. No
one is persecuting you. Some people just don't think your favorite
Gundam show is the best in the Gundam Universe. That is all there is
to it, and having people disagree with you does not give you some
special dispensation to have your opinion carry extra weight.

If you want all of intolerance and pettiness to stop, then quit
expecting everyone to kneel before the glory that is Gundam Wing!
Some people think MSG is the best Gundam show ever, I think Zeta is
the best, and yet others think Wing is the best. We are all entitled
to our opinions, and I for one will not be browbeaten into staying
quiet about my favorite, or least favorite, show, just because it
might cause some Wing fans to label me as intolerant or petty.

If you want to know why a lot of the "UC elitists" have such a bad
attitude about "Wingers," it has nothing to do with the show Gundam
Wing. It is because of the attitude that the Toonami inspired fans
bring to the community. What I mean by that is; the AC/UC division,
and the existence of this list, both predate the US airing of Gundam
Wing, and the AC/UC issue was never a topic of particularly heated
debate on this list. There were plenty of discussions of the merits
of Wing or X or G before any Gundam had aired on Toonami, and it
never turned to name calling. Then along comes the US launch of
Gundam Wing, and suddenly you can not say a single bad thing about
Wing without being assured of a 100+ posts about how unfair it is
that all these "UC people" are so high-handed, and biased against
Wing, and that is the best case scenario. At worst you have people
accusing you of anything from trolling, to bigotry, to homophobia.
Now instead of having a neat resource for those of us who take Gundam
more seriously than we should probably take a cartoon, we have a 200+
posts a day about a ton of inflammatory crap and name calling.

So please, if you want to preach about tolerance and purity of
intent, don't direct your lecture to the "UC elitists." We "UC
people" have managed to have a pretty amiable segment of fandom for
20 years now.

The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org [mailto:owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org]On
Behalf Of Andrew Dynon
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:32 PM
To: gundam@aeug.org
Subject: [gundam] [RANT] Shinigami.org, and Gundam fandom

I just discovered that www.shinigami.org has shut down. This was
probably
THE best Gundam Wing site on the web, and it truly a sad event.
Kumiko's
reasons for shutting down her site highlight a major problem within
Gundam
fandom: Intolerance and pettiness.

What happened to Kumiko was on a different ML, and I haven't seen
anything
here that sunk to that level (although I don't have time to read
every
post), but I have seen a fair amount of bigotry on this ML as well,
particularly by UC fans directed at Gundam Wing and its fans. I'm
the
first to admit that Wing is not perfect, but some of the Wing-bashing
I
have seen makes me ashamed to admit to liking UC Gundam (and some of
the
Wing fans feel obliged to bash UC back). There are other issues
which
there has been similarly bad behaviour over, but this is the major
one.

Please, all this is capable of doing is inflaming opinions and
driving
people away from fandom. It's doing nobody any good (except trolls
looking
to start flame wars), so can we please end this silliness?
_____________________________________________________________
Andrew Dynon

Watt-Evans' Law of Literary Creation: There is no idea so stupid or
hackneyed that a sufficiently-talented writer can't get a good story
out of
it.

Feist's Corollary: There is no idea so brilliant or original that a
sufficiently-untalented writer can't screw it up.

Morrison's Corollary: There is no idea that a sufficiently-talented
writer
has made into a good story that can't become annoying in the sequels.

Holliday's Corollary: There is no plot so stunningly original that a
journalist can't make it sound hackneyed.

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