garrick lee (goner4sure@yahoo.com)
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:41:33 -0800 (PST)


--- Nicholas Paufler <echofox@wingzero.net> wrote:
> > for my part, i wonder why many people (not just
> leslie
> > or echofox) would consider basara a
> > jerk/dickhead/jackass/ingrate, and yet think that
> > isamu and guld are cool. argh.
> >

ah. sorry for lumping your opinions in with other
people's.

> Hey, I never said Isamu and Guld were cool. I just
> said I don't care for
> Basara as a character. His overzealous pacifism
> really felt forced and
> unrealistic.

oddly enough, i found it appealling.

> Hey, that's the reason I _like_ Isamu.
> He is the stereotypical womenizing hotshot, and he
> doesn't pretend to be
> anything else.

he doesn't try to do anything about it either. he
indulges his childish tantrums and womanizing ways
because he knows he can get away with it.

i really don't dislike or like isamu. but i do think
that isamu and guld make for an overwrought tag-team
main characters.

>I can accept a character like that
> much moreso than someone
> like Basara. When I see Isamu hitting on Lucy, I can
> say "yeh, that could
> happen." When I see Isamu go out in his Fire
> Valkyrie yelling about wanting
> people to here him sing, all the while UN Spacy
> Valk's are getting blown to
> shit around him? I can't accept that in the
> slightest. Sure its ... err ...
> unique, but that doesn't make it a good plot point.

and isamu's womanizing makes a good plot point?

when i see isamu punching walls and hitting on women,
i think "what a dick! and women actually fall for
this self-centered brat?"

>
> > basara is not as well fleshed out as either isamu,
> > myung or guld, but somehow manages to stand out on
> his
> > own at once -- you either love him or hate him
> after
> > just 4 episodes, no?
> >
> I dunno, the overzealous pacificist has done before
> in various mediums. I
> don't find it heroic, I find it rather banal and
> decidedly unrealistic. I
> don't believe for a second that a real military
> organization would let a
> civilian go out into combat battle after battle.

basara wasn't under military jurisdiction. and as
far as "unrealistic" and military organizations go,
you seem to take it for granted that the un spacy
utilized minmei's song attack against dolza's grand
armada which resulted in that one ship taking out
millions of zentradi ships. in the same vein, i find
everything in macross 7 to be perfectly in keeping
with what they were able to pull off in original
macross. "unrealistic" and "far out" and overzealous
starstruck romantics are things that macross
specializes in, in case you haven't noticed.

and apparently, no one seems to realize that it's
basara who's had to put up an older brother act for
mylene's spoiled brat antics. basara doesn't treat
other kids the way he treats mylene.

>
> Macross Plus isn't groundbreaking anime, the likes
> of, say, the Rurouni
> Kenshin OVA. It _is_ fun though.

dunno about the "fun" part. you didn't find macross 7
fun, while i did.

i happen to see basara as a combination of kenshin and
sano. :P

and if you think basara's a schmuck, what about saito
hajime? (the anime saito, not the real saito, i
mean). i can't fricking believe that RK saito had a
wife. unbelieveable.

>It's exactly what
> it billed itself as, the
> "Top Gun" of anime. An entertaining plot filled with
> interpersonal conflict
> that you can sit down and enjoy.

"entertaining" is subjective. i found macrose place
as heavy handed and self-indulgent as you found
macross 7 heavy handed and self-inudlgent.

> Macross 7 just felt self indulgent to me. The "war
> sucks" message seems
> heavy handed at best ...

macross 7 is heavy handed "war sucks" agenda and
gundam isn't???

egads.

>plus, just about any
> respect I had for the series
> went out the window after watching the Dynamite 7
> OVA's ... truly some of
> the worst anime I've ever seen in my life.

don't spoil it for me. i still haven't watched it.
but i have the songs from that, and i really dig 'em.
:P

-garr

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