Leslie_R (trojan@atoka.net)
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 11:02:23 -0600

garrick lee wrote:
<some snippage>

> i like macross plus for its own merits (which,
> curiously enough, have nothing WHATSOEVER to do with
> the spirit of macross saga in any way) , but think
> it's much too overrated.
> for my part, i wonder why many people (not just leslie
> or echofox) would consider basara a
> jerk/dickhead/jackass/ingrate, and yet think that
> isamu and guld are cool. argh.
> that's the grossest miscarriages of character justice
> ever -- it's the other way around, basara is cool,
> isamu and guld aren't. isamu is an arrogant hotshot
> pilot playboy who screws around with women whenever he
> feels like it, and breaks rules and regs whenever he
> feels like it and revels in his childish temper.
> guld is your not-so-everyday mentally imbalanced
> psycho who would abuse a girl out of jealousy or
> frustration and carry a grudge from his childhood
> years to adulthood. macross plus just stinks SO MUCH
> of melrose place (or whatever moronic nighttime soap
> shit is propagating the airwaves today).

never watched melrose place (don't think i'm missing anything) and i'm
not sure how abuse figures into Guld's relationship, he may have
attacked her and scared her alot but it dosn't look like he followed
through with it, abuse sounds to me like a more long-term thing...

and as for Isamu if he wasn't half as talented as he was as a pilot he
probably wouldn't have been given as much slack as he had up to that
point and would have had to straighten up and fly right a long time ago,
as it was his behavioir is just an example of how spoiled a character
can become...

> basara has not sunk to any of the sleazy lows that
> either isamu and guld have, yet is able to retain a
> unique character of his own. isamu and guld are your
> regular everyday tragic characters in tv soaps --
> people i have nothing but contempt for. intruiging,
> yes. enjoyable, not really. realistic, oh yes.
> heroic, hell no. there's nothing heroic whatsoever in
> going at each other's throats over a dumbarse
> childhood misunderstanding (covered up by amnesia, oh
> yeah right!). neither is there anything heroic in the
> overdone overwrought tale of coming to terms with
> oneself (myung). epic in the telling, but lacking
> real substance.

the amnesia isn't as far-fetched as some might assume, and i think they
were most certainly heroic in the way it turned out, what makes them so
is that yes they were both arrogant as well as being a bit sleezy and a
whole host of other things but when it finally came down to the wire
they were able to push past that and do the right thing despite all
else.. maybe you can disregard Guld's self-sacrifice because he shoved a
girl and ruined her blouse years before or brush off Isamu charging into
the teeth of a space fortress' defenses just because he was a
self-centered jerk every other time, but i can't.

> basara is not as well fleshed out as either isamu,
> myung or guld, but somehow manages to stand out on his
> own at once -- you either love him or hate him after
> just 4 episodes, no?

to confess, all i know about him is what i got from reading the episodic
synopsis since i can't find any Mac7 on video, in particular a scene
descirbed from Macross 7 dynamite put me off to this character in which
he uses his spirita powers to prevent someone from possibly doing
vilence, that person was a police officer who was trying to apprehend
several suspects who through Basara's actions were allowed to escape
with a stolen VF (this is a fundamental philosophical differance, i was
similarly frustrated and infuriated with the Character of Relena
Dorlan/Peacecraft in gundam Wing when she started preaching "Total
Pacifisim" even to the exclusion of common sense)

> my last beef against macross plus was the overall tone
> of adult material that was forcefully interjected --
> so much so that it lost all sense of "classy
> storytelling" that the original macross had. the
> writing and telling of the story strikes me as a
> sellout to the type of crowd that insists hikaru and
> misa had tons of sex during their wacky courtship
> (mostly americans insist this...i've found...*sigh*),
> that hikaru and minmei had even more sex on the night
> she visited hikaru after quitting with her cousin (i'm
> sure everyone remembers that episode) and the crowd
> that revels in fanfics of khyron and azonia having
> torrid love affairs (again, mostly by american
> robotech fans). doh. no offense, guys, but what
> the freaking hell is it with americans and sex???
> what really bugs me is not the sex, but how it's
> handled in a story -- subtly and masterfully
> (escaflowne, imo) or horrible skanky b-movie fashion
> (macross plus).

i dunno, except for one scene in the movie version all the sex was to
some extent rather ambiguously implied (it's a "sure you 'know' that
they did it, but you don't 'know' that they did it" kinda thing)

and americans like sex because it's fun ^_^
> fighting over love triangles is just so banal,
> besides.
> i have little to comment on macross plus plot and
> story. it was nice to watch (i did watch it many
> years ago, and haven't felt any urge to watch melrose
> macross ever again). the whole shebang was a glitzy
> sidestory that you could afford to miss out on and
> still appreciate macross fully.

funny, i have friends who have similar comments about Macross 7
> -garr

(these were not ment a flames, merely observations)

"He's a God, it'll take more than one shot."
     -Lady Eboshi, 'Princess Mononoke'

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