L. M. Lloyd (ubik@austin.rr.com)
Thu, 28 Dec 2000 02:26:01 -0600


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First, as has been pointed out many times, this is getting far off
topic. The reasons for not discussing fansubs have been made
abundantly clear, and one would think the discussion would be over,
but...

I am sorry, but I hate to see people pass off their personal opinion
as a flat fact, when it is not a fair approximation of the truth. I
spent a year working at one of the larger commercial sub/dub
companies here in the US, and during my time there it was abundantly
clear that there is indeed a tacit coexistence between fansubbers and
the commercial services. More than once, I would see people, at the
company for which I was working, order fansubs of a title they were
thinking about licensing, in order to get an idea what the story was
like.

Some of the people doing fansubs even end up doing translation work
for the commercial services. The relationship is anything but one of
animosity. Most fansubbers operate with an understanding that they
will pull the tapes once the show is commercially released, and most
companies are fine with that. The only time there is any real problem
at all, is when a fansubber insists on continuing to distribute a
title after its commercial release, or when pirates try to charge
commercial rates for fansubs of a licensed property.

The companies in this industry, at least in my experience, see quite
a difference between fansubbers and pirates.

BTW, I am sorry to everyone for continuing this thread, and no I am
not a fansubber, nor do I even own a single fansub. In fact I don't
own any anime that isn't either a licensed commercial LD or DVD from
either the US or Japan. It is not my intent to defend fansubbers or
fansubs. I just want to set the record straight.

The goal is to overcome the deliberate nature of the process.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org
> [mailto:owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org]On Behalf Of -Z-
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 11:02 PM
> To: gundam@aeug.org
> Subject: RE: [gundam] Why Bad Form?
>
>
>
> > Actually, the companies that dub/sub anime for its official
> > release encourage fansubbing. It gives the show a wider market
> > for its release.
>
> Totally false. That's like saying that Microsoft encourages
> software piracy
> because it gets more people to use their software. Quite the
> opposite, most
> anime distributors, like software distributors, believe that they
> lose sales
> because discounted copies or knockoffs ruin the market. They
> tend to count
> their losses by the number of copies they could've sold, which is a
> bit of inflation on their part, because in both cases many people
> will
> take a free or
> heavily discounted copy of a program they would otherwise have
> passed over.
>
> > Most of the people who buy the fansubs will buy the legal
> commercial version
> > once its released (unless the American version was horribly
> > butchered). It's like free promotion.
>
> Not supported by the evidence. I've recorded many shows off the
> air, which I'm
> allowed to do, because public broadcasr constitutes a license of
> sorts insofar
> as personal use is concerned, but I've rarely if ever gone out
> and rented or
> bought a commercial copy.
>
> There's no such thing as a "free promotion" -- promotional copies
> are restricted
> in number and distribution, clearly marked "not for resale" and
> are supposed to
> be returned or certified as destroyed once the promotion is over.
> "Sneak previews" is something else, as you can't take one home with
> you.
> Giveaways are
> just that, but again they expect you to keep it to yourself, not
> copy and distribute it to others.
>
> > There's an article about how commercial anime companies view the
> > role of fansubbers. It's at the Tencho Girls' website
> > (fansubbers) so I
> won't post
> > the link.
>
> And there are Web sites by marijuana users explaining how doctors
> wish they
> could use the stuff medicinally, if only it weren't for those
> pesky archaic
> laws. And the North American Man/Boy Association (NAMBLA) will
> cheerfully explain to you how Socrates, Caesar and other great men
> of
> history engaged in
> pederasty both as children and adults, so what could possibly be
> wrong with it?
>
> A fansub site justifies its actions with its own view of their
> "role" in the
> popularization of anime, but you won't find the same message at
> any commercial
> anime company's site.
>
> > If anyone wants the link e-mail me.
> >
> > It is illegal to distribute fansubs by international copyright
> > laws, but the companies don't care unless the fansubs are of
> > shows that
> have already
> > been released.
>
> No, they care a great deal, but unless they have are losing more
> money than
> they're likely to recoup in court they won't prosecute unless the
> offender refuses to cease and desist when so ordered. The average
> Joe
> simply isn't worth
> the expense, but again why push your luck? If they preceive a
> threat, they'll
> take action, including blanket C&D orders to anyone and everyone
> who can be
> shown to be in violation of their copyright, down to and
> including the use of
> the logo.
>
> > One of my Japanese friends has a fansub of Sabrina the Teenage
> > Witch (English dialog with Japanese text). He got it before it
> > was released there. So, they're apparently doing this in Japan
> > too.
>
> They're doing it everwhere. That doesn't make it legal, moral,
> ethical or right.
>
> -Z-
>
>
>
> -
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