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Edmund Chiu (edf91@worldnet.att.net)
Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:00:49 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Lai" <x-lai@uchicago.edu>
To: <gundam@aeug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:14 AM
Subject: [gundam] Kou Uraiki [was: Gundam 0083]
> The relative lack of action in older Gundam series can be attributed to
the
> lower expectation of action back in the days when they were produced --
there
> has been an increasing demand for action from action movies over the past
two
> decades.
Actually, if that's true, then Turn A should be filled with action,
right? But Turn A barely has any action - definitely not a couple of action
scene per episode. I believe it's Tomino's intention all along to use as
little action as possible, but he still has to "please" the sponsors by
putting in stuff that could sell models and stuff...
> Apparently. Thanks to people like Juudo, the Earth Circle is still
governed by
> a bunch of idiots, and NTs are still feared with mankind remaining in
their
> wretched state.
What makes you think Earth would be different, especially if Scirocco or
Haman would govern as the same as the Fed? Another point of Gundam is that
both side want exactly the same thing - control, not the "purpose" they said
they were fighting for. I think you are just as "naive" as Zion followers
for believing Haman or Scirocco would govern Earth any different than Feds,
other than the fact that their are the ones who called the shots...
> There is just so much they could have done.
It could be said for a lot of different things too...
> While Zeon would be reprimanded for doing the same thing...
They are reprimanded for losing a war, plain and simple...
> It certainly made sense to HIM, and thanks to HIM, soldiers perish and
more junk
> added to an already polluted space.
Do you honestly believe those people would have lived if Char didn't
start the movement? Given the situation of the Feds, it's just a matter of
time before some people like Char would round people up and started a war.
Just look at Shining of Hathaway - people all over are itching for a
fight.... I am not saying Char is right, but it's not like he has to work
very hard to get people fired up...
> Well, there isn't such a twist for a starter. Besides, shows like Z and
ZZ are
> just as simple: good dude appears out of the unexpected, good dude joins
an
> unsinkable ship, good dude gets mighty unit that triumphs even in face of
better
> units and pilots, good dude whips out some ungrounded philosophy and
finishes
> the bad guy.
You have to "blame" that on people's attention span - do you honestly
believe the audience would follow the show if the main ship and crew dies
all the time in the series? The creators have to use a common group so the
audience can get "attached" to them and watch the show. It's the same thing
for all the other science fiction shows, be it Star Trek or Star War - the
main cast would remain the main cast. As for Zeta, most of the crew (at
least the pilot crew) dies - leaving only Fa, Bright and the rest of the
bridge crew...
> A point that never really scored until CCA. As much as Tomino wishes to
bring
> out a similar point in Z and ZZ, it was never obvious enough.
Nevertheless, I
> applaud the effort.
Of course, you are looking for superficial "clues" - Tomino usually just
"hide" it among the story, so he won't "force" the audience into finding it,
but it was there - what happen to the Fed official who made the major
decisions? They certainly didn't suffer very much, yet it's the people who
suffer the consequences...
> How is that different from Scirocco and Hamaan deciding other people's
fate?
> Somehow, main characters can get away with so many things that the bad
guys are
> simply slew for.
There isn't - I am not saying Char is correct in the whole thing
(actually I think he let his personal feeling get in the way of things), and
that Char should get away with it - I am just saying these people who follow
Scirocco, Haman or Char know what they had getting into, so they know they
could've die for their cause. All these characters pretty much die for what
they did, so I did think they get at least part for what they deserve. Don't
you think it's fitting to the Gundam theme? It's the people who suffer from
politicans ambitions...
> Char stopped her plan in winning!?
Axis lose the first round against the Fed in Zeta, didn't they? They had
to regroup and do it again in ZZ, didn't they? I certainly think Char play a
major role in that...
> This brings up another problematic point about ZZ. NTs are conceived out
of
> habitation in space. How much more space habitation can you get than
living in
> Axis. Therefore, Axis should have tons of NTs hanging around.
I guess you haven't read into the whole NT theme - people still don't
really know what really bring out the NT quality in people - Usso was born
and raise on Earth, yet he's still a NT. It seems that it takes a certain
events or quality in order for someone to become a NT, and it seems to
getting much harder to see a natural NT (after CCA, you won't see more than
a couple of NT at a time).
> At any rate, she was displeased. Having retired from the battlefield,
however,
> that wasn't something that could draw Sayla out of her post-war life.
I really don't see any displeasure or discontent from Sayla in Zeta,
although I am not 100% sure about Zeta, since I don't really remember too
much from that show...
> I knew that, but it didn't stop Hamaan from disliking Camille's intrusion.
And this also show how much Haman like to be "in control"...
> There is not a player with a clean soul on the field anyway. People who
dare to
> change the world are shot down, which leaves only people with no cause for
life
> (e.g. Sayla Mass, Noah Bright). In the end, nothing is achieved.
Finally, you get it! This is a major point of the whole show - it's
almost impossible to change the world, no matter how bad it has gotten...
> Instead, let's have the great Red Comet to drop a nuclear-explosive-filled
> asteroid base onto Earth and completely pollute the planet that bore
mankind.
> Oh, did we mention that Greenpeace will have nothing to protest for
anymore if
> that ever happened?
You still don't get the point of CCA - even after that threat, the Feds
hasn't change much - just look at F91. Many people like Char believe that if
Earth people live through something so deadly would change their mind about
the Feds, but they didn't - they are content with what they are getting from
them, hence the major point of Gundam - it's the people who are the ultimate
"goat" for the whole thing, since they are the ones who didn't do anything
in stopping the government from doing what they did...
> Alright, at this point it is quite clear that we cannot completely
convince each
> other to come to a concensus. You are entitled to your opinions, and I
respect
> that. Let's just give this topic a rest, shall we?
I think we are arguing about different things - I am arguing for
something while you want to argue on some other things. I just cannot look
at the show the same way you did, and I am really surprised to find opinions
like yours, since this is the first time I saw Gundam fans would get these
opinion and impressions from the show, while I find most Gundam fans share
pretty much the same opinion as I do. Of course, I could be wrong since it
could be just that people didn't voice their opinion. Anyway, I just want a
final "say" on the thread and be done with it...
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