Edmund Chiu (edf91@worldnet.att.net)
Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:30:22 -0800


----- Original Message -----
From: "-Z-" <z@gundam.com>
To: <gundam@aeug.org>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:55 PM
Subject: RE: [gundam] Char & Hamaan (Was: Kou Uraiki [was: Gundam 0083])

> We're using the same word to mean to different things. There's
"relationship"
> meaning an emotional connection and interaction and there's "relationship"
> meaning a romantic or passionate attachment, the latter usually implying
> physical intimacy or sexual relations.

    I never said there's anything sexual between them - what's with you
Americans ^_^ Seriously, when I said "heavy", I just mean that they are not
just friends, probably not just best friends, probably something along the
lines of Lalah/Char back in OYW...

>
> Char and Lalah clearly had a relationship of the former type and may have
even
> been romantically attached to one another -- although all of Char's
> relationships have been one-sided in this regard -- but it's equally clear
that
> they never acted upon whatever feelings they may have had for one another.
If
> they were in love, it was unrequited love. The only person who has ever
been
> clearly intimated to have had a physical relationship with Char is Nanai
Miguel.

    I agree with that - although there are people who suggest that there's
something sexual between Char and Lalah, since there are people who
suggested that Lalah is working a really "low" job (you know, the kind that
involve her and other man) before Char rescue her, so there MIGHT be a
sexual relationship between them (this is just speculation). As you have
pointed out, I really think Lalah didn't really love Char romantically...

> My problem is that, for years now, fans have been using this image to mean
that
> Char and Hamaan had an illicit physical, sexual relationship on par with
that of
> Indiana Jones and Marion Ravenwood in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK. This is
the
> relationship that I said had no support.

    I never said that - I am not sure where you get that. Given that most of
the main characters in Gundam usually behave according the traditional
Japanese tradition, you would rarely see them sleeping with other people
unless they are really serious, especially for a TV series, since there's a
lot of young children who watched the shows...

>
> I don't doubt that Hamaan and Char had a relationship, but given the
evidence of
> many series, my take is that it was entirely one-sided, with Hamaan having
a
> crush on Char and Char exploiting it as far as he could without inviting
> criticism or political intrigue from the other Zeon refugees at Axis.
Char also
> played "uncle" to Mineva, earning and exploiting her trust.

    I don't know why you and people like Ricky seems so against Char - I
believe he got better after OYW. He might have tried to have a relationship
with Haman, but probably with her trying to get more power, Char decide to
leave. As for Mineva, I really think Char is quite fond of her - he probably
see her as someone like his sister, since he hasn't really spend much time
with Sayla.

>
> Char's relationship to Hamaan was most likely akin to his relationship to
Quess
> in CCA -- he did not discourage her and may even have encouraged her
interest in
> him, but he didn't cross any lines and allow the relationship to turn
physical.

    See above. I don't think he's that bad, at least in the time period
between the end of OYW and Zeta...

> Whatever was between them, Char wouldn't hesitate to off Hamaan in a
heartbeat.
> If anything, he was disgusted anf angry with the way she'd indoctrinated
Mineva
> in the Zabi philosophy. If he had any tender feelings to anyone at that
time,
> it was to Mineva, to whom he still considered himself a protector. Hamaan
was
> equally willing to do Char in, but I'll grant that a part of that could be
the
> classic "woman scorned" syndrome -- in a way, she'd be more hateful toward
Char
> if he'd never touched her than if they'd had a physical relationship that
later
> went sour. He'd've led her on, let her down and left her flat -- much
more
> insulting than if he'd simply been a cad who'd taken liberties with her.

    I don't think Haman really hate him - she give him plenty of chance to
be back to Axis and back to her side, so I really don't think Char did
anything "bad" to her other than leaving Axis in 0084.

> Compare the Char/Nanai and Char/Quess relationships in CCA.

    Well, if it were a "traditional" anime, I would say that Char and Nanai
are probably close, but not to the extend of sleeping together yet...

>
> Again, I'm not saying that there was nothing between them. I'm just
saying that
> there was nothing physical, as has been inferred repeatedly over the years
and
> which I preceived you to be saying again here and now.

    Like I said, I am NOT saying they have any sexual relationship - I am
just saying that they are very likely to be going out with each other before
Char left Axis...

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