Edmund Chiu (edf91@worldnet.att.net)
Mon, 18 Dec 2000 04:13:04 -0800


----- Original Message -----
From: "-Z-" <z@gundam.com>
To: <gundam@aeug.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 8:13 PM
Subject: [gundam] Char & Hamaan (Was: Kou Uraiki [was: Gundam 0083])

> All of this is speculation on your part, inferring relationships based a
single
> circumstantial and non-contextual cue that can be interpreted any number
of
> ways.

    I didn't just use that - I also use the conversation between them
throughout Zeta...

>
> Hamaan's offer to Char, for example, is no indication of a past
relationship.
> It is, prima facie, an offer of a new and future relationship, contingent
upon
> Char's acceptance of her terms at that point in time. Didn't Kycilia make
a
> similar intimation at one point?

    I don't remember Kycilia doing something similar - I just remember her
questioning Char's loyalty in the original Gundam. Actually, I remember
Haman saying "come back to my side" or something similar, so they should
definitely have something between them...

>
> The snapshot or memory -- I don't recall this scene in Z, but I'll take
your
> word for it that this is indeed where the image originated -- shows Char
and
> Hamaan on holiday. That's all it shows. Char would've been one of
Hamaan's
> retainers, so the relationship is much more likely to have been platonic,
> although Hamaan may've had a crush on "Uncle" Char that gave the moment
more
> meaning for her than for him.

    She was leaning her head on his shoulder - a clear sign of affection.
You don't see Haman just lean on anybody's shoulder, not to mention the fact
that Haman rarely let anybody close to her, so it clearly suggest that Char
and Haman have "something" going... I also don't think it's the same
picture, since in that mental picture, it just show Haman and Char at an
ocean side, with Haman leaning on Char, with nothing that even suggest a
holiday, unless you count that they aren't in uniform...

>
> Char left Axis and returned to the Earth Sphere at Quattro on 21 September
0084,
> under cover of a reconnaisance mission to determine if the time was right
for
> Axis to move. The Zeon refugees arrived at Axis on 28 March 0081, so this
image
> must come from some time in between -- there couldn't have been such a
holiday
> on a ship. Furthermore, Hamaan didn't become Regent until 11 August 0083,
two
> days after her father died. That leaves a window of about thirteen months
> during which this incident is likely to have occurred. If *I* were to
> speculate, I'd guess that it was either 28 March 0084 -- the first
anniversary
> of their arrival at Axis -- or 15 August 0083 or 0084 -- the annual Zeon
> Foundation Day celebration -- both of which were likely to be holidays for
the
> Zeon refugees at Axis.

    See above. Can you give me some details of the picture, since I don't
think we're talking about the same picture here...

>
> In any case, Hamaan would've been at most 16 years old, to Char's official
26
> and actual 24 -- half again Hamaan's age. Any intimation of a romance
between
> Char and Hamaan would've been scandalous and suicidal -- the power base on
Axis
> would've come down on Char the way the British aristocracy came down on
the Earl
> of Essex when he similarly compromised young Queen Elizabeth. Worse, I
think,
> because Char was a commoner and a family retainer -- it would not be
highly
> presumptuous for him to "court" Hamaan, even in jest.

    Are you so sure about that? I don't think spacenoid still use something
like that to "lynch" people.... Anyway, Char was consider a war hero and a
great soldier, so I don't think people would consider Char too "low" to
court Haman...

>
> I can believe that Char would try to get close to Hamaan, try to "get into
her
> head" and try to influence her as much as possible, but he would certainly
steer
> clear of anything that would compromise Hamaan or himself under those
> circumstances. Again, young Hamaan might make more of their relationship
than
> it actually was, but that's *her* view, not what actually happened.

    I wouldn't say he try to influence her - remember Reccoa in Zeta? She is
clearly pissed at Char because Char doesn't try to get close to Reccoa at
all. I think it's because he remember what happened with Haman... Of course,
that's just my guess...

> Compare this with another image from Z, that of Camille's father
Franklin's
> mistress. Not only does Camille flat out tell his father that he knows
about
> his mistress, but the image flashes up as Franklin is dying and he calls
out the
> name "Margarete!" This is canonical evidence. This is supportive
context. The
> image of Hamaan and Char is just that, an unsupported image that is open
to a
> number of possible interpretions.

    I am not saying I am 100% sure that they dated or anything, but it
clearly suggest that there's some "heavy" going on between the two of them,
whether be it that one of them is trying to "date" the other or both are
trying...

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