Damien Hailey (samas_1@hotmail.com)
Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:41:43


> > I like discussions on 0083 as well, simply because there are so many
>people who
> > would bash the seriousness of 0083. Kou is hardly a top ace pilot -- he
>is
> > lucky to just make it into the ace level.
>
> Let's just say we gotta hand it to him just for the effort...
>
Yep, I think we should all be able to agree with that...
>
> > But didn't everyone go about praising how much magic Newtype abilities
>put
>into
> > making a good pilot? While having some fantasty-related phenonmena is
>good, it
> > saddens me to see how poorly they have been exaggerated and abused in
>series
> > such as ZZ, which explains my favoring of 0083 -- realism!
>
> What about F91, original Gundam or even V, where Newtype ability has
>nothing been other than giving the pilot a better feel of the presense of
>the other pilot? If you call 0083's fighting realism, where Gato seems to
>thrive in close range combat all the time, then I guess I love ZZ's magic
>more since both doesn't make any sense. Even in Zeta, other than the last
>two or so episode, NT powers isn't really use as a trick or anything, and
>the fighting in there is much more realistic than the one in 0083...
>
>
> > That is why Kou deserves some credit in rising to the ace level within
>such a
> > short period of time.
>
> Actually, Kou didn't really show anything in their first meet except
>how
>stupid he is...
>
He means over the course of Stardust. I think one of the main things he
learned was that real combat is different than the simulated fights and
skirmishes he engaged in as a Test Pilot.
>
> > I cannot but admit that Kou is not the wisest pilot of all. I defend on
>his
> > behalf simply because the overwhelming amount of bashing him, which
>frankly he
> > does not deserve. I'd rather see people bashing Juudo or Katsu. As
>others have
> > pointed out, Kou might just as well be court-marshalled for recklessly
>taking
> > GP-01 out for combat in zero gravity, but then Albion was under serious
>threat,
> > and some action is still better than none. The bottomline is, Kou was a
>rather
> > brainless rookie.
>
> Actually, you wouldn't see me defending Judo or Katsu... I prefer the
>type of pilot like Amuro or even the Camille in the later half of Zeta, who
>is much more aware of the situation and don't just go head on into
>something...
>
>
> > Having good "raw" piloting skills is definitely positive, so why should
>we
>bash
> > him for being talented in the first place? Moreover, how is Kou
>different
>from
> > the other ace pilots mentioned here (except for Juudo, as he is not one)
>in
> > learning how to curb his emotions? Kou did display increased restraints
>on his
> > behaviour towards the end of the story.
>
> You call that "restraints"? He should've shot Gato the first time he
>see
>him in the colony, not talk to him and let Nina interfere. It doesn't
>matter
>how much talent he has (I think he's just average at best, maybe in the
>range of Emma in terms of piloting skill), he let's his emotion run into
>his
>decision way too much, yet didn't really learn anything until after the
>whole thing is over...
>
True, but the important thing is that he *did* learn...
>
> > Given that Neue Ziel is the BEST unit in 0083, the fact that Kou almost
>manage
> > to tie with Gato shows that Kou is quite a formidable pilot.
>
> Actually, GP03D is better since it has a more diverse weapon
>selection.
>If Kou hasn't been careless about the I-Field generator, Gato has no real
>chance of defeating Kou (almost all of Neue Ziel's weapons are beam
>weapons)...
>
Actually, I attributed that more to Gato's skill and Kou's inexperience.
>
> > As mentioned in previous dialogues, the importance of being at home with
>an MS
> > is often overlooked in war tactics. A super unit is useless unless the
>pilot is
> > familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the unit in achieving
>performance
> > worthy of the unit. While there is tremendous bias from the storyline
>to
>put
> > Kou in the Gundam's cockpit, him being green does play to his advantage,
>as he
> > is not too habituated with piloting other models. Other pilots onboard
>Albion,
> > however, might be too used to their GMs to efficiently "break into"
>GP-01.
>
> That depends - They haven't been piloting the same GM throughout their
>career, you know. They are just lucky that Kou is actually good in GP01...
>
Agreed.
>
> > He is one hell of a pilot, to whom I have much respect. His
>"successor,"
> > however, is far from agreeable. Camille is good because he has a lot of
>spunk,
> > with much freshness to offer for a NT community, as veteran NTs -- Amuro
>and
> > Char -- are tired from their personal struggles. His constant display
>of
> > greater potential makes him unique to his contemporaries. However,
>potential is
> > still potential, which has yet to be realized. Amuro and Char are quite
> > unmistakenly still better in terms of strictly maneuvering a unit than
>Camille,
> > who excels in his NT manifestations.
>
> Of course, in terms of pure piloting skill, Char and Amuro is the
>best,
>but if you take everything into account, Camille seems to be the best
>overall, assuming he didn't "lose his head" in combat with Sciroco. I see
>him as being in a similar role to Amuro, maybe a bit more since he seems to
>actually want to bring forth the NT revolution, unlike Amuro, who just want
>to stop Char or something...
>
>
> > No, far from it. Yet judging from his maneveurs after the NT flare
>kicks
>in,
> > Camille wasn't exactly performing like an ace pilot in busting Yatzan.
>All NT
> > pilots are constantly using their NT abilities in combat, as it is
>simply
>their
> > nature. But let's leave the super-robot aspect out of a
>supposedly-realistic
> > genre. Gundam ain't Dragonball.
>
> I think you completely miss the "point" of Yazzan's defeat - the
>creator
>want the audience to know that Camille is showing Yazzan that he shouldn't
>treat human life as carelessly as he has been. What better way to show it
>than to show it like this? To Camille, it's not a "duel" anymore...
>
>
> > In the absence of major military clashes, I find it hard to believe that
>Fed
> > pilots have actually improved while Zion pilots are reduced to rookies.
>It's
> > all about the storyline being on the side of the Federation in 0087
>onwards.
>
> Did you watch Zeta? The role is pretty much reverse in some cases -
>some
>Zion pilots joined AEUG, therefore they are the veteran pilots while Titans
>are consist of old veterans pilots and Rookies like Jerid.
>
> > Indeed Captain Snypase mentioned that in the initial stages of Albion's
> > pursuit. However, the later assaults from Delaz fleet are hardcore,
>although
> > God knows why Gato did not directly pound Albion in order to clear his
>fleet
> > once and for all. Besides, Albion's MS squad was seriously outnumbered,
> > especially towards the end of the pursuit. For that Alpha et al deserve
>some
> > credit in successfully defending their mothership. They are, after all,
>
> I am not arguing their lack of skill - I am just saying it's not
>really
>an organized attack that they were facing throughout the series...
>
> > students of a celebrated pilot. As for Camiile's case, I am not
>entirely
>sure
> > of what is being said about organized assaults. The battle scenes in
>post
>0083
> > productions (in terms of real time, not the UC timeline) are simply not
> > convincing enough.
>
> If you call 0083's fighting a "sign" of realism - did you watch CCA?
>Those fighting, other than Amuro vs Char, is what I call normal MS
>fighting.
>People don't just go close range all the time - it's way too dangerous...
>
I last saw CCA a LONG time ago, thus I've forgotten most of what happened in
it. What _was_ the combat like?

> > Because Kou is dumb! But seriously, the fact that the area was loaded
>with
> > debris might have helped Gato in dodging beam shots. Also, GP-01FB
>might
>be
> > more agile, but GP-02A could very well win in a straight dash, with its
> > impressive array of thrusters. Anyway, Kou is dumb.
>
HEY! ^_^

> What makes it different from the fights in other UC timeline? There
>are
>always debris everywhere. As for GP02A's "dashing" ability - do you really
>think it can outrun GP01Fb?
>
>
Not a chance.
>

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