Ricky Lai (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:02:39 -0600
I like discussions on 0083 as well, simply because there are so many people who
would bash the seriousness of 0083. Kou is hardly a top ace pilot -- he is
lucky to just make it into the ace level.
Edmund Chiu wrote:
> Sometimes I just love discussion on 0083 - there are enough people who
> keep on insisting Kou is much better, when I think he's just "average" at
> the ace level at best...
But didn't everyone go about praising how much magic Newtype abilities put into
making a good pilot? While having some fantasty-related phenonmena is good, it
saddens me to see how poorly they have been exaggerated and abused in series
such as ZZ, which explains my favoring of 0083 -- realism!
> I take it you mean Elle and Roux, right? You have to remember that Elle
> receive no formal training, while Roux probably receive minimal training at
> best, unlike Kou or Keith, who have been trained for MS combating...
That is why Kou deserves some credit in rising to the ace level within such a
short period of time.
> You have to keep in mind that during their first meeting, Kou isn't
> really a shining example of piloting, so Cima probably consider him just
> your typical inexperience Fed pilot...
I cannot but admit that Kou is not the wisest pilot of all. I defend on his
behalf simply because the overwhelming amount of bashing him, which frankly he
does not deserve. I'd rather see people bashing Juudo or Katsu. As others have
pointed out, Kou might just as well be court-marshalled for recklessly taking
GP-01 out for combat in zero gravity, but then Albion was under serious threat,
and some action is still better than none. The bottomline is, Kou was a rather
> I believe we aren't argue about that - we are arguing why is Kou dumb
> enough to use a GP01 in combat, when he could've use the powered GM, where
> it should be a better example of how he would pilot in space for the first
> time, instead of Kou being lucky to be alive after fighting Cima...
Having good "raw" piloting skills is definitely positive, so why should we bash
him for being talented in the first place? Moreover, how is Kou different from
the other ace pilots mentioned here (except for Juudo, as he is not one) in
learning how to curb his emotions? Kou did display increased restraints on his
behaviour towards the end of the story.
> He's just talking about Kou's "raw piloting skills", not his overall
> piloting skills. He's way too emotional to be a really good ace pilot - even
> Camille, Judo and Amuro or Gato, all the great ace pilots, don't let his
> emotions run wild during combat (at least they learn that later).
Given that Neue Ziel is the BEST unit in 0083, the fact that Kou almost manage
to tie with Gato shows that Kou is quite a formidable pilot.
> during the whole series, Kou has been using a Gundam, which is pretty much
> better than almost all of the units the Zion used in the series except for
> Neue Zuel, so anything he "achieve", be it good comments or what not, can be
> "blamed" on the superior MS.
As mentioned in previous dialogues, the importance of being at home with an MS
is often overlooked in war tactics. A super unit is useless unless the pilot is
familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the unit in achieving performance
worthy of the unit. While there is tremendous bias from the storyline to put
Kou in the Gundam's cockpit, him being green does play to his advantage, as he
is not too habituated with piloting other models. Other pilots onboard Albion,
however, might be too used to their GMs to efficiently "break into" GP-01.
> The only reason why Kou is still the pilot of
> GP01Fb when Burning is healthy is because Kou is getting used to the Gundam
> and asking him to change MS in the heat of battle would not be a good idea.
> All of the other pilots onboard hasn't been exposed to such a "good" MS, and
> since Kou has basically been "growing up" inside the Gundam, it just make
> sense for him to do well in it.
He is one hell of a pilot, to whom I have much respect. His "successor,"
however, is far from agreeable. Camille is good because he has a lot of spunk,
with much freshness to offer for a NT community, as veteran NTs -- Amuro and
Char -- are tired from their personal struggles. His constant display of
greater potential makes him unique to his contemporaries. However, potential is
still potential, which has yet to be realized. Amuro and Char are quite
unmistakenly still better in terms of strictly maneuvering a unit than Camille,
who excels in his NT manifestations.
> If we just take comments by ace pilot as
> proof, then Camille should be the best pilot of them all, since both Char
> and Amuro give him great comments...
No, far from it. Yet judging from his maneveurs after the NT flare kicks in,
Camille wasn't exactly performing like an ace pilot in busting Yatzan. All NT
pilots are constantly using their NT abilities in combat, as it is simply their
nature. But let's leave the super-robot aspect out of a supposedly-realistic
genre. Gundam ain't Dragonball.
> I get it - if a Newtype pilot use his newtype powers on his enemy, then
> the Newtype pilot isn't that good, right?
In the absence of major military clashes, I find it hard to believe that Fed
pilots have actually improved while Zion pilots are reduced to rookies. It's
all about the storyline being on the side of the Federation in 0087 onwards.
> > Good! Zion pilots are simply better!
> They had more experience, yes, but that changed in the era of Zeta and
> ZZ, since all pilots then have more experience.
Indeed Captain Snypase mentioned that in the initial stages of Albion's
pursuit. However, the later assaults from Delaz fleet are hardcore, although
God knows why Gato did not directly pound Albion in order to clear his fleet
once and for all. Besides, Albion's MS squad was seriously outnumbered,
especially towards the end of the pursuit. For that Alpha et al deserve some
credit in successfully defending their mothership. They are, after all,
students of a celebrated pilot. As for Camiile's case, I am not entirely sure
of what is being said about organized assaults. The battle scenes in post 0083
productions (in terms of real time, not the UC timeline) are simply not
> Didn't the captain mentioned something about those "assaults", where
> most of them are just "stray" troops that wanted to join Delaz fleet in
> fighting the Feds? Most of them aren't what I called really dangerious
> enemies, unlike those Camille has to fight, since most of them are
I see. Well, Monsha is no typical Feddie. He is at least a cut above the
average, having learnt from the best.
> I think he is trying to say that are you using Monsha as the standard in
> piloting skills...
Because Kou is dumb! But seriously, the fact that the area was loaded with
debris might have helped Gato in dodging beam shots. Also, GP-01FB might be
more agile, but GP-02A could very well win in a straight dash, with its
impressive array of thrusters. Anyway, Kou is dumb.
> Why should he engage in MELEE combat, when GP01Fb has the advantage in
> agility and weapons? Remember, GP02A cannot use one of its arm, so it cannot
> really use its shield to defend against attacks, and GP02A are not designed
> to fight against a top-of-the-line ace MS, so Kou has basically all the
> advantages besides experience. He could have use the attack and run away
> tactic with Gato, and Gato couldn't do anything about it simply because
> GP01Fb is much more agile and has more weapons than GP02A. The only reason I
> believe Kou lost is because he's too emotion to use his head...
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