KurenaiJiku (kurenaijiku@rtsfan.com)
Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:38:23 -0800


Wow, nice reply Roland. I thoroughly agree.

Kuren

>On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 04:19:19 -0800 (PST) garrick lee
<goner4sure@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mature themes? But that has been done before.
>>
>>exactly. i agree.
>>
>>> I see
>>> nothing so revolutionary about Eva. Themes on being
>>> alone, orphaned, growing up without a parent, that
>>> stuff was already done in Gundam.
>>
>>and in quite a handful of super robot series too.
>
>
>Ah, but that wasn't what the show was about, at least to me. That was all
secondary to and builds on its true purpose...more below.
>
>
>>
>>>Sex? Religion? Eva
>>> barely touched the stuff.
>>
>>sex my arse. all it showed was shinji masturbating in
>>front of a comatose asuka. :P (the misato-kaji love
>>scene doesn't count, for obvious reasons).
>>
>>the issue of religious angst. i'm not all sure, but
>>i think that's been done with more class than
>>evangelion. if not in anime, then most certainly in
>>other forms of fiction.
>>
>
>
>And again, neither of those were truly the heart of the show, at least to
me. They were used as backdrops and props for the true theme. Again, at
least to me...more below.
>
>
>>>What Eva did was basically
>>> show a conspiracy with a helpless boy like Shinji in
>>> the middle. I don't even understand how anybody can
>>> identify with Shinji.
>>
>>neither do i. :P
>>
>>
>
>
>And I can, because I can. Maybe you don't understand how it feels to grow
up not understanding others and being so shy and afraid of getting hurt
that you don't open up to others and have few friends, but I do...because I
was that way when I was younger, especially at Shinji's age.
>
>
>>>I mean, Amuro was in the same
>>> situation, but he grew up. I guess its not fair to
>>> Shinji because he only had 26 episodes and three
>>> movies for which to mature, but that is just my
>>> point.
>>
>
>
>And Amuro also had how many years to change? All that took place in Eva
happened in the span of just maybe 2 or 3 months.
>
>And of course, Char never really changed throughout the series.
>
>And of course, Amuro was a newtype, so he was able to somewhat see into
others, so he didn't have this whole relations problem as bad as Shinji.
>
>But that might just be my hate of Amuro (and Char) talking. I don't like
either of those characters. Out of the newtype Gundam pilots, I really only
like Camille and Four.
>
>
>>errr...there's a world of a difference. both shinji
>>and amuro whined a lot, but amuro pulled his own
>>weight and grew up, while shinji practically regressed
>>towards the end of the series. plus, the cast of
>>first gundam are far more real and three dimensional
>>than the cast of evangelion. at least, to me anyway.
>>
>
>
>And not everyone matures at the same rate, or at the same time. Amuro, for
all we know could have been a fast maturer, while Shinji was slow. Also,
there is really a world of difference for many between the ages of 14 and
15. Shinji regressing is not a big surprise either. Let's see...he's 14,
witnessed his mother's "death" when he was about 5 or 6 (don't remember
exact age, it's been awhile since watching the show), has been tossed out
by his dad for years, only to be called back, only when he is needed, has
had to fight dangerous alien enemies with no preperation (granted, Amuro
had to fight human enemies, but he was a newtype), has watched his father
use him to kill one of his best friends, has watched one of his best
friends/loves kill herself to save him, and has had to kill someone he
really cared about himself all in the span of a couple months. Did Amuro
EVER go through that kind of thing? NO! All Amuro did was kill the faceless
masses, and accidently kill his soulmate!
> (accidental murder and deliberate murder are two VERY different things).

>
>Then, in EoE (DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YET AND ARE
PLANNING TO), he not only sees the only mother figure he's really had in
years kill and die saving him, but he also watches his other love get
killed and then EATEN! I'd snap too.
>
>Also, Eva's characters were just as three dimensional as many of those in
Gundam. But like many people, you have to look deeply to see the complexity.
>
>
>>>Eva didn't touch topics hard enough, they
>>> just teased the audience with philosophical jargon
>>> and left it hanging. I see no maturity in that. If
>>> they dared, then they should have taken it too the
>>> limits of expression, like in Nadia, where death and
>>> growing up, war and conspiracy is better
>>> illustrated. Eva is just hype. Now the Daikun
>>> philosophy of Contolism, thats something mature,
>>> something intriguing, something to!
>>> think about.
>>>
>>
>>oui!
>>
>>-garr
>
>
>
>The point of Eva, at least to me, was to look at how people relate to each
other, and goes into what makes a human, human. That's why I LOVE the tv
series ending. Hell, that's why I love series like Serial Experiments Lain,
Key the Metal Idol, and even Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 seems to be
getting into that question. Eva did a very good job of looking at the human
condition, and making you ask questions about it. Does it give a straight
answer? No...nor is it meant to. Each person must decide for him or herself
what it means to be human, and how to relate to others. There is no set
answer for everyone.
>
>But hey, that's just my opinion. You're entitled to yours and I'm entitled
to agree to disagree. This is all I think I'll most likely say on this
subject.
>
>Roland
>
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