KurenaiJiku (kurenaijiku@rtsfan.com)
Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:07:48 -0700

Well for me, I can tell you that I'm not blind to GW. It's just that the
number of faults that I see in GW are far greater than my tolerance can
receive therefore I don't like it. I'm not saying that because you aren't
or are an otaku/loyalist, therefore you can't join ML's. But I am saying
that you don't join a otaku mailing list when you aren't an otaku and then
expect to get your two bits in properly; just for example that is. But
from your statement about people shouldn't get obsessive or shouldn't be
obsessive is pretty farfetched because when you first joined this list,
that shouldv' been your first thought that this is an "otaku" list.


>no. i'm saying people fall in love with their own
>shows too much and blind themselves to their show's
>own shortcomings (love being blind and all...*cough*)
>while CONVENIENTLY bashing other derivative shows they
>don't like while ignoring their good points.
>sometimes, i wonder if it's just to get "in" with the
>UC crowd or oldschool crowd. there's a difference
>between being critical and being elitist or a wannabe.
>number two, i'm on this list to read up and know more
>about gundam, but the neverending UC vs.
>everything-alternate-universe conflict is quite
>distracting. don't give me flak about otaku/loyalist
>status in order to join mailing lists. that's
>bullshit any which way you slice it.
>> >i'm probably as die-hard a macross fan as many here
>> >are UC gundam fans. i didn't like mac2 all that
>> >much, but i don't bitch about macross 2 being a
>> >rip-off.
>> But uh...Macross 2 is a POS.
>opinion, not fact.
>> i think the guitar-piloting in mac7 is all
>> >screwy, but i don't whine about macross 7
>> destroying
>> >the top-gun image of macross like many
>> self-proclaimed
>> >purist bastards (how i hate people like those) are
>> >wont to. it's just too...pathetic to do so.
>> Macross 7 is even a worse POS.
>another opinion, and most definitely not fact.
>>C'mon, they warped
>> the "Minmei" attack into
>> an actual civilian Valkyrie!!!
>so what's wrong with that?
>you got civilian worker suits in gundam. heck, even
>later on in the timeline, you've got civilian fighting
>and if it's the music attack you've got a problem
>with, then what the heck are you watching macross for?
> why say that the macross sequels are pieces of shit,
>and then laud the original, when the spirit is the
>maybe it's the delivery of "music as a weapon" (or
>more to macross theme -- "music as anti-weapon") that
>you have a problem with. or maybe, just like all the
>macross 7 bashers, you're just dissing on the show
>because it's not the way you wanted it to be. as
>opposed to being truly crappy -- for you have yet to
>come up with coherent arguments on why mac 7 is a
>piece of shit. for that matter, you've yet to come up
>with coherent, logical, well thought out and
>reasonable arguments on why gundam wing is a piece of
>shit -- half-baked excuses like "heat shotels that
>don't glow" and "green orb-pieces on wing's chests
>that should implode/explode" don't count.
>>And what's with that
>> Max/Milia 259 fiasco?
>what the heck are you talking about? if you're
>talking about max and miria being separated, it
>> Mac7 is definitely the worst of worst
>> adaptations/franchises I've ever

>> seen.
>i consider it one of the best i've seen in the last
>few years.
>> Even worse than GW.
>now THAT is truly offensive. bleah. :O
>>It has crappy artwork,
>disagree. 'course, i get the feeling that further
>discussion seems to be moot with you anyway, since
>you're all gungho about screaming crap and nothing but
>> crappy story,
>this is where i can't disagree with you more. the
>story was a nice followup to the macross universe (and
>has kawamori written all over it), and is a truer
>sequel to the original series, carrying the macross
>themes better than even macross plus. macross 7 is
>not perfect and is a far cry from being a classy space
>opera, but proudly proclaiming it as crap makes me
>wonder if you even watched the series.
>> mecha design
>if you loved macross plus mech designs, you have no
>real reason to dislike the mac7 designs (unless you're
>just grasping at straws to bash mac7 with) because the
>designs for the valkyries (with the exception of the
>stealth) are all descendants or variants of the
>macross plus yf19 and yf21 valkyries. even the enemy
>mechs (elgerzorenes?) are mere derivatives of the
>macross plus transformation. though i personally
>still prefer the vf-1 f-14 tomcat look.
>>, crappy character design,
>again, a matter of opinion. the designs stray far
>from the homey down-to-earth designs of the original
>series, but fit the feel of the series just right. on
>the whole, i do feel the designs could have been done
>better. but "crap" is unacceptable (and since you
>label everything you dislike as "crap" anyway...)
>>crap crap
>> crap crap...geez...the
>> whole show SCREAMS crap.
>it's exactly this kind of attitude that antagonizes
>fellow anime fans needlessly.
>and you still haven't answered my question (or yahoo
>hasn't delivered the mail yet): what is your
>obsession with "serious anime", and why should all
>anime be "serious"? just because you dislike wacky
>anime, bubbly anime, porn anime or all other
>non-serious anime doesn't mean all anime in existence
>should therefore cater to your tastes, and only your
>> >i've had enough of "that's not what gundam (or
>> insert
>> >favorite rave show) is supposed to be!" to last me
>> an
>> >eternity of suffering. i doth think people bash
>> >alternate timeline gundams too much. gee, i wonder
>> >why...
>> Ok you've had enough of us complaining, and I can
>> tell you that "we've" had
>> enough of alternate Gundam timelines.
>tell that to bandai. ;)
>i have no problem with UC or alternate timelines. i
>just find myself fortunate to be able to appreciate a
>more variety of things.
>like....the hidden coolness of g gundam. i would
>honestly like to see more talk on g gundam's story and
>plot, but i find that a lot of viewers are too shallow
>to look past the goofy mech designs and into the
>story. most people, from what i gather here and there
>on gundam communities online, don't even get past the
>first handful of episodes. it's a pity, because g
>gundam is a series that rewards patient viewing.

>> >at any rate, i think macross 2 music blends in
>> quite
>> >well with macross 7 music. macross plus music was
>> >just another monstrosity entirely, and i don't care
>> if
>> >it's yoko kano composition.
>> huh? What does music have to do with this whole
>> shibang?
>music, my boy, has everything to do with the macross
>universe, in case you missed the thrust of the entire
>-garr the grouch
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