garrick lee (
Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:57:44 -0700 (PDT)

--- KurenaiJiku <> wrote:
> >people get too huffy about what is and what isn't
> >gundam (or insert favorite rave show) for their own
> >good.
> Hey are you saying that we can't get obsessive about
> the things we like?
> If you are, then you're on the wrong list buddy.
> More than half of us are
> dedicated loyalists/otakus.

no. i'm saying people fall in love with their own
shows too much and blind themselves to their show's
own shortcomings (love being blind and all...*cough*)
while CONVENIENTLY bashing other derivative shows they
don't like while ignoring their good points.
sometimes, i wonder if it's just to get "in" with the
UC crowd or oldschool crowd. there's a difference
between being critical and being elitist or a wannabe.

number two, i'm on this list to read up and know more
about gundam, but the neverending UC vs.
everything-alternate-universe conflict is quite
distracting. don't give me flak about otaku/loyalist
status in order to join mailing lists. that's
bullshit any which way you slice it.

> >i'm probably as die-hard a macross fan as many here
> >are UC gundam fans. i didn't like mac2 all that
> >much, but i don't bitch about macross 2 being a
> >rip-off.
> But uh...Macross 2 is a POS.

opinion, not fact.

> i think the guitar-piloting in mac7 is all
> >screwy, but i don't whine about macross 7
> destroying
> >the top-gun image of macross like many
> self-proclaimed
> >purist bastards (how i hate people like those) are
> >wont to. it's just too...pathetic to do so.
> Macross 7 is even a worse POS.

another opinion, and most definitely not fact.

>C'mon, they warped
> the "Minmei" attack into
> an actual civilian Valkyrie!!!

so what's wrong with that?

you got civilian worker suits in gundam. heck, even
later on in the timeline, you've got civilian fighting

and if it's the music attack you've got a problem
with, then what the heck are you watching macross for?
 why say that the macross sequels are pieces of shit,
and then laud the original, when the spirit is the

maybe it's the delivery of "music as a weapon" (or
more to macross theme -- "music as anti-weapon") that
you have a problem with. or maybe, just like all the
macross 7 bashers, you're just dissing on the show
because it's not the way you wanted it to be. as
opposed to being truly crappy -- for you have yet to
come up with coherent arguments on why mac 7 is a
piece of shit. for that matter, you've yet to come up
with coherent, logical, well thought out and
reasonable arguments on why gundam wing is a piece of
shit -- half-baked excuses like "heat shotels that
don't glow" and "green orb-pieces on wing's chests
that should implode/explode" don't count.

>And what's with that
> Max/Milia 259 fiasco?

what the heck are you talking about? if you're
talking about max and miria being separated, it

> Mac7 is definitely the worst of worst
> adaptations/franchises I've ever
> seen.

i consider it one of the best i've seen in the last
few years.

> Even worse than GW.

now THAT is truly offensive. bleah. :O

>It has crappy artwork,

disagree. 'course, i get the feeling that further
discussion seems to be moot with you anyway, since
you're all gungho about screaming crap and nothing but

> crappy story,

this is where i can't disagree with you more. the
story was a nice followup to the macross universe (and
has kawamori written all over it), and is a truer
sequel to the original series, carrying the macross
themes better than even macross plus. macross 7 is
not perfect and is a far cry from being a classy space
opera, but proudly proclaiming it as crap makes me
wonder if you even watched the series.

> mecha design

if you loved macross plus mech designs, you have no
real reason to dislike the mac7 designs (unless you're
just grasping at straws to bash mac7 with) because the
designs for the valkyries (with the exception of the
stealth) are all descendants or variants of the
macross plus yf19 and yf21 valkyries. even the enemy
mechs (elgerzorenes?) are mere derivatives of the
macross plus transformation. though i personally
still prefer the vf-1 f-14 tomcat look.

>, crappy character design,

again, a matter of opinion. the designs stray far
from the homey down-to-earth designs of the original
series, but fit the feel of the series just right. on
the whole, i do feel the designs could have been done
better. but "crap" is unacceptable (and since you
label everything you dislike as "crap" anyway...)

>crap crap
> crap crap...geez...the
> whole show SCREAMS crap.

it's exactly this kind of attitude that antagonizes
fellow anime fans needlessly.

and you still haven't answered my question (or yahoo
hasn't delivered the mail yet): what is your
obsession with "serious anime", and why should all
anime be "serious"? just because you dislike wacky
anime, bubbly anime, porn anime or all other
non-serious anime doesn't mean all anime in existence
should therefore cater to your tastes, and only your

> >i've had enough of "that's not what gundam (or
> insert
> >favorite rave show) is supposed to be!" to last me
> an
> >eternity of suffering. i doth think people bash
> >alternate timeline gundams too much. gee, i wonder
> >why...
> Ok you've had enough of us complaining, and I can
> tell you that "we've" had
> enough of alternate Gundam timelines.

tell that to bandai. ;)

i have no problem with UC or alternate timelines. i
just find myself fortunate to be able to appreciate a
more variety of things.

like....the hidden coolness of g gundam. i would
honestly like to see more talk on g gundam's story and
plot, but i find that a lot of viewers are too shallow
to look past the goofy mech designs and into the
story. most people, from what i gather here and there
on gundam communities online, don't even get past the
first handful of episodes. it's a pity, because g
gundam is a series that rewards patient viewing.

> >at any rate, i think macross 2 music blends in
> quite
> >well with macross 7 music. macross plus music was
> >just another monstrosity entirely, and i don't care
> if
> >it's yoko kano composition.
> huh? What does music have to do with this whole
> shibang?

music, my boy, has everything to do with the macross
universe, in case you missed the thrust of the entire

-garr the grouch

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