Edward Ju (gundam@loop.com)
Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:27:44 -0700

>At 17:54 10/17/2000 EDT, Zhao Pan wrote:
>>This is a mailing list, we can say whatever we want. if you bothered to
>>count the number and types of emails, you seemed to have a lot of time in
>>your hands. Why don't you spend some time and read what other people have to
> I think you should actually read what you typed before you post.
> -Z- happens to be one of the three longest-serving, most
>knowledgable and influential persons on this list. The other two being Mark
>and Burke. His opinions and posts have always been good and pertaining to
>the good of the list. To insult -Z- like this is unacceptable.

Man, sounds like everyone got off the bed on the wrong end on the same day.

I don't think Zhao Pan's original message was meant to be insulting. After
all, I did wonder how much time it took for -Z- to type up all that
statistical information (doubt I took more time just hitting <delete>
or opening them for cursory scans). Considering he also uses a bozo filter,
he couldn't have gotten more than what I got from the GML.

One of the bad habits we all share here is that people tend to leave the
subject line alone even when it's time to update it, just to keep the thread
consistent. So Zhao Pan was right when he implied that we might learn
something by reading what others have to say, even if for every gem post
that you have to endure dozens of crap posts.

> I had many interesting (to me) discussions with him regarding Gundam
>physics, and find him to be a careful thinker and poster. He would not have
>posted such a post without a good reason.

I don't think he was knocking on -Z-'s credibility, besides, everyone's been
somewhat cranky lately. I mean $h!t, Gus was the last person on earth I'd
expect to lash out at people like that.

> The Gundam Wing (not AC Gundam) vs. Gundam UC thread has always been
>a hotbed of activity, with pro-Gundam Wing fans hotly debating against
>pro-Gundam UC fans. I should know. I had been involved in this kind of
>threads before. These types of arguments serves absolutely NO purpose, other
>than driving the traffic up and getting everyone on the list irritated.

I don't mind it every once in a while, occassionaly there are some amusing
posts that makes you laugh your ass off. People have bene hush hush over
this subject for long enough, I consider this last round to be a good
catharsism for many people since many of them seem to have been holding
their peace for long enough. Better to have a semi-civilized debate we
just had than a vulcanic eruption, I say.

> This argument is pointless because, as Edward Ju once told me
>bluntly, opinion is like an a$$hole; everyone's got one. The perception of
>whether Gundam Wing is Gundam or not varies from people to people, and as
>such we will never get a straight answer about that.

LOL, that's why I refrain from those "poll" posts and useless fights.
As for getting a straight answer, it's more like no matter how much or
how long people debate, they're not going to change their minds once they've
taken a stance on the issue.

> I strongly suggest we put this kind of thread ("Does Gundam Wing
>counts as a Gundam show?") in the category of "dubbed vs subbed". In other
>words, BANNED.

Well, this IS an unmoderated forum, short of unanimous consensus, you're
not going to get topics banned when we get new members joining frequently.
So be prepared to live with the ever-recurring topics on fansubs (and why
fansubs aren't allowed here), live action movie casting call, WTF is
happening with G-Savior, etc. unless it is blatantly off topic and has
overstayed its welcome.

> A word about the list. Once upon a time I read every post, thinking
>each is a fountain of knowledge. Now I trash 90+% of the post simply by
>looking at the title.

"So did I, my friend, so did I"

- Yevgeny Nourish, eXistenZ

>A lot of posts here are either irrelevant (one-liners:
>"I agree!"), flames or OTs. Granted, I do read the OT posts, so long they
>don't get out of hand. But flames and one-liners go straight to the trash.

You know what might have contributed to the shift in this ML's posting
habits? The "trash" posts are non-offensive. People are so afarid of
posting provocative posts for fear of being flamed or coming across as
politically incorrect, insensitive, whatever, they stick to the safer path
which unfortunately don't lead itself to posts of substance most of the
time, unless you are just posting neutral factoids/info.

> I am a more of a modeller, and I joined up for the model reviews and
>techniques. Lately, it's been disappointing (especially since Probe

Hmm, I think Richie's reviews are pretty informative.

>but I stayed on the list because of the occassional interesting
>post here. However, the current trend has been large volumes of irrelevent
>posts and flames, which I detest.
> The point? Each individual member who post here should consider
>whether his or her post is actually contributing anything worthwhile to the
>discussion on hand.

Since this is not a moderated forum, it's really up to the individuals to
police themselves. Obviously we aren't doing a very good job at being
considerate to each other, that's why a lot of valuable contributors have
left the GML. Some have returned, while some haven't. Sooo... the newbies
don't know what they're missing, while the old-timers just go with the flow
mostly. I am not going to name any names, but those who have been around
long enough should know by now whose posts are mostly "me too" or junk
without much substance. Having a filter set up or deleting their posts
manually after a download session should at least alleviate part of the
problem when traffic is heavy.


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