Chris Maier (
Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:25:28 -0400


-----Original Message-----
From: []On
Behalf Of Roland Thigpen
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:11 PM
Subject: Re:OT: Re: Nope, there is no God! (Re: [gundam]Yes,There is a

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:38:48 -0700 Alfred Urrutia <> wrote:
>Roland Thigpen wrote:

>If you think the guys who made "Porky's" were going for an Oscar then you
don't know what drives most productions.

*sigh* I was refering to more in depth films, not comedies. IE, Oscar
material movies.

>The end justifies the means? You agree with that?

No, you're reading into my statement what is not there.

>So, if Schindler murdered 2 million Japanese to save those hundreds of
Jews, it would still be a win?

You'll notice I did not say that. I'm saying that based on the evidence I
have of the man, his actions at this point, and the eventual results of
them, made up for the (relatively) minor crimes he committed before.

Now, if he was guilty of killing millions of others, then no, his actions at
the end would not make up for it.

> Now, I have no idea how good or bad the guy actually was, I just have
issue with Spielberg's pounding his feel-good approach into me with every
movie he makes. Other guys are capable of making movies without doing that.
He is supposedly so great. So why can't he do it, too? He is working that
PC thing *so* much. He commented that he didn't know if he could do another
Indiana Jones movie because, after making Schindler's List, he can't portray
Nazi's as buffoons anymore. It is too sensitive a subject for him, you see.
>I'm all for laughing at Nazis. And just because the guy saved the lives of
lots of Jews (a commendable act considering the risk he was taking) doesn't
mean he's beyond criticizing.

Frankly, I agree with you about most Spielberg movies. In fact, the only
ones I did like of his were Schindler's List and the Indiana Jones movies. I
didn't even like Close Encounters.

>And you are starting to sound like someone who can't separate a little
criticism of a movie and the subject of that movie from attacking all Jews.
And it goes to the root of Spielberg's problem - if he's such a good
director then that last part of the movie is *not necessary*. What that
last part was either a) the audience is so stupid we have to make the
obvious more obvious or b) I have no confidence in my directing ability to I
put that last bit in to be sure I get my message across.

Not at all. I can seperate true criticism from an attack.

And as for what that last part was...I have to go for (a). Have you seen the
majority of Americans in today's world?

BTW, you have heard of the writing (and thus, movie through scripts) method
of reinforcing a point by repeating a theme do you not? It tends to be very
effective at driving home a point. Which is what that ending was there for.

>> was put in there to remind everyone that so long as we remember, the
chance of such things happening again are lessened. Maybe you want to forget
it, but I don't.
>> Maybe you'd look at the movie differently if you didn't already have a
bias against Spielberg, which is what your message leads me to believe.
>I personally don't know the guy. I have a bias against his directing,
which has taken nose-dive since Close Encounters.

Well, after the Indiana Jones movies anyways...

>> Whatever again...I felt like I had to take an hour long shower afterwards
and then rip the top five layers of my skin off of myself after that movie.
It was almost like I had been raped, I think, in many ways. I felt
>How many times have you been raped? No way does a movie do that to
someone. To use your overreaction to the Schindler comments above maybe I
should say... I know several rape victims and friends of rape victims who
would find your comparing a movie you don't to being raped as insulting.
Seems overboard, yes?

Yeah, maybe. BTW, you have heard the terms mental rape and psychological
rape have you not? Maybe not as phsyically violent as sexual rape, but just
as real.

>> violated by it. All during the movie I felt the intense need to vomit all
over the screen. Sorry, but I don't think it was all that good. Several
people have commented (on other lists I participate in) that it was one of
the best ads against the use of drugs, alcohol and crime that they had ever
seen, and in some ways I agree, but still...The only other movie I have ever
seen that made me feel the way I did after I finished watching that film was
Natural Born Killers.
>Ya, but how was the *movie*, not your reaction to the subject matter.

Frankly, I did not enjoy it. That should be clear enough. I did not like the
subject matter, how it was presented, nor the characters or how they were
portrayed. About the only character I halfway liked was Bruce Willis's one
(if I'm remembering correctly. I watched the movie once 4 or 5 years ago).


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