Franz Co (ms_slasher@mail.com)
Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:35:21 -0400 (EDT)


>------Original Message------
>From: Alfred Urrutia <ledzep@d2.com>
>To: gundam@aeug.org
>Sent: August 22, 2000 12:05:06 AM GMT
>Subject: Re: [gundam] The state of Gundam in North America

>Richie Ramos wrote:

>> At 09:03 PM 8/18/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> >Those who claim that we "progress" or "evolve" through >conflict are
mistaking
>> >technological and engineering innovation for progress and >evolution.
An
>> armored
>> >dinosaur or pincered beetle is not more highly evolved than >a flying
>> dinosaur or
>> >butterfly, only better protected against a certain class of >carnivorous
>> >predator. Forging swords isn't progress, but beating them >into
plowshares
>> is.
>> >Progress comes AFTER the war, when the innovations are >applied to
cooperative
>> >ventures.
>> >-Z-
>>
>> I know that I may have sounded casual about violence and war, >and I
>> apologize for that. How can I explain how I feel? I don't >like war,
but i
>> do see that it is one of the forces driving human >development, no matter
>> how ugly that fact is. I do not wish to fight, and yet I >will gladly do
so
>> if I have to protect the people I care for. I really wish >that there
would
>

>I sort of agree with you here. I believe that we do "evolve" >through war.
Now,
>that doesn't mean that I use the word in a positive or war->loving light.
Think
>of it in the sense of roaches. Many roaches die when exposed >to those
little
>poison traps. But some don't. So, while it may seem like that >product is
there
>to wipe out roaches, since it doesn't and since some roaches >are
unaffected by
>the poison what it really does is promote the breeding of >poison-resistant
>roaches. Something I'm sure few people would want. War, as an
>evolutionary
>process, tends to wipe out those that are willing to fight on a
>battlefield.
>Less so now, as the low casualty counts in the last few wars >have shown,
but WWII
>and Vietnam numbers would say that a lot of guys willing to die >in battle,
did.

>And looking at evolution through war as comparable to armored >dinosaurs'
>evolution is not quite the same. The dinosaur or beetle is >dealing with a
>localized threat, a threat that a similar dinosaur or beetle >might not
have to
>worry about a hundred miles away. But war is global. All >cultures seem
to
>somehow become involved whether they like it or not. A Gundam >type war
would
>extend beyond Earth. In this sense the culture can be >considered the
evolving
>entity and it has to either survive and adapt or die. And die >means that
the
>loser is either wiped out or it changes into something else >>(slave,
blasted back
>to the stone age, assimilated) and basically the same as dead >even if the
people
>making up the culture live.

>If the agressor continues to win and fight then the evolution >of a better
war
>creating machine continues. But if the defenders win then the >evolution
of
>better war stoppers continues. The tools (microwaves, lasers, >submarines,
etc.)
>are a side-effect.

>Alfred.

>--
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->=-=-=-=-=
>"They've got the best babyback ribs. Better than Viet Cong >ribs."

- >Kelly "Gunny" Port

>Alfred Urrutia - Digital Domain - 310.314.2800 x2100 - >ledzep@d2.com
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->=-=-=-=-=-

True, in war, the best and worst are brought out in people. if we hadn't
seen the horrors of past wars, there wouldn't be any anti war movements
these days. War is survival of the fittest - the best, which is exactly
what the theory of evolution states. If it wasn't for hard times like war,
we wouldn't learn lessons to apply for future use. Evolution per se doesn't
just involve genetics, culture is also affected.

P.S. But isn't there a way to avoid having to learn lessons the hard way
(war, conflict), and aren't wars being started for the same petty reasons
they were being started a hundred yuears ago? Have we evolved (culturally)?

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