Michael Wong x4241 (Michael.Wong@nsc.com)
Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:29:34 -0700 (PDT)


Dear List:

> >But the fact is Hikaru didn't get no pussy! There are way too many anime guys
> >that are indecisive like Hikaru and he is definitely not the worst. Kasuga
> >Kyosuke in KOR, Godai in Maisson Ikkoku, the D.N.A. guy, the Video Girl Ai
> >loser, the I''s moron, etc. We are talking blue balls galore here!
>
> LOL... very true.

Yeah upon closer inspection we can divide anime males (main characters) into
4 types, note that certain characters belong to multiple categories and the
list below covers normal anime, not hentai ones where nearly every single guy
gets his turn to screw.:-

(1) Yuju Hudan (sp?) losers who can't get it up/get cock teased severely but
        never get to the point of penetration. As described above...

(2) Hopeless Lech that jumps any female lifeform, Ryu Saeba in City Hunter,
        Moroboshi Ataru in Urusei Yatsura, Cobra from Space Adventure, Dr.
        Slump, etc.

(3) Cool and Godlike invincible fighters who act too cool for girls, Goku in
        Dragon Ball, Char Aznable, Gato, guy in Hokuto no Ken, Cobra, Max,
        Amuro, Inu Yasha(?), Kenshin, Spike in Cowboy Bebop. etc.

(4) Geeky nerdy type who are embarassed when talking to girls yet are horny as
        hell. Kou from 0083, Amuro Rei, the boy in Doraemon, Captain Tsubasa,
        guys in Otaku no Video, dude in Ah, Megumi Sama! 8D

With the exception of type (3) main characters, none of the other guys managed
to "get lucky" except in very rare cases. An fellow anime loving friend off
mine once remarked that maybe anime is an accurate reflection of Japanese
culture, where boys are in general impotent while girls are desperate for sex.
Compare that to American shows, where pretty much everyone gets laid in the
end... Made me think. 8P

> > (snippage...), I think the series made it pretty clear
> >that Misa will go back to him.
>
> That's a debatable point - I don't think Hikaru joins the fray as an
> expression that he choose Misa over Minmey - he fights to protect his
> friends and loved ones, which I believe was spelled out rather clearly.
> His sense of duty as a soldier took over at the time of crisis. The only

Well, Minmey repeatedly pleaded for Hikaru to leave his job in the military
while she's willing to give up her life as a pop-singer and live with him.
Her rationalizing that as fearing to lose him came very close to approximate
a marriage proposal, Hikaru's refusal to do so was basically a flat out
rejection of her offer and in my mind it was like giving up on Minmey to
pursue Misa. It's true that he didn't make his position clear though.

> "clue" I could see of Misa going back to Hikaru was Minmey's volunteered
> leaving Hikaru at the last scene. She could have gone back and turned
> down the offer to lead the scout fleet or requested that Hikaru be stationed
> onboard the fleet as escort, but none of these were explicitly stated when

Yes, but we already know Misa has to be pretty deeply in love with Hikaru for
her to take so much abuse of his and yet come back to ask for seconds. So
it is quite reasonable to see that once she saw Hikaru rejected Minmei, she'd
do whatever to accomodate Hikaru. Be it turning down the offer or asking for
Hikaru to be stationed with her as one of her staff.

> the TV series was made and speaking of notorious retcons, we as Gundam fans
> should know how much fan pressure can change history. ;)

Right, I really hate those. There are too much retcons going on in the Gundam
universe and comic books (American ones especially!), such is the problem with
never-ending series though. Sigh.
 
> <snip>
>
> The thing is Hikaru has been totally oblivious to Misa's affection for him
> all along until one of the bridge bunnies told him he was being insensitive
> to Misa (this was around the tea episode IIRC) when he jokingly asked her
> out on a date. Their relationship didn't really "blossom" (for the lack of
> a better word) until Hikaru came to the realization and asked Misa out on a
> picnic date. After his missing the date, I don't think they ever really
> reconciled prior to Misa's confession.

Yeah, that's because up until then, Hikaru's mind was still pretty much
completely preoccupied by amorous thoughts for Minmey, who afterall was his
first love. He must have some unconscious feelings for her however, witness
how he went back to earth to save her in the big "final" battle against the
Zentraedi army. His relationship with Misa has been forged in war and the
constant threat of possible death while Minmey has always been pure fantasy.
Misa was willing to forgive him even after the picnic date, she didn't really
get angry until she saw the initials of Hikaru and Minmey on the extra long
scarf that he offered her. Even with that, she was ready to go back to Hikaru
that fateful night and overheard Minmey begging to stay with Hikaru... which
led to her heartbreaking rendition of a Minmey song while she was getting drunk
in a bar. 8(

> That was the whole point though - the way the TV series ended was to leave
> the audience hanging as to what happens to this triangle, and the marriage
> between Hikaru and Misa was more like an afterthought whether it was due
> to fan pressure or not, much like how the Gerbera Tetra "turned out" to be
> the GP04 that never was. If the staff that produced the TV series intended
> for them to get married, they wouldn't have waited until Flashback to
> resolve it.

The Gerbera Tetra = GP04 was just plain stupid. I took the way the TV series
ended as a clear indication that Hikaru had chosen Misa and they lived happily
ever after. Since he had clearly made a choice (see below) between the two
women to me. Adding a wedding scene to the TV series is simply un-necessary
at that point.

> See above... a soldier's duty calls, I think he would have gone to fight
> even if Misa ran into the shelter.

True, you can argue it this way, but Minmey had made it clear that she wanted
him to give up fighting and used it as a bargaining chip in her thinly veiled
wedding proposal. I took Hikaru's refusal to comply with her wishes as a
rejection of her.

> >I thought the last 6 episodes of Macross were among the BEST anime I've ever
> >seen! Sure it maybe depressing, but the emotions the characters went through
> >felt so REAL!
>
> It was almost too soap opear-ish for me, but if the series ended after they
> destroyed the Zentradi fleet then Macross wouldn't be the classic it is
> today.

You are right in that the story may seem soap opera-ish, but when you compare
it to a real soap opera it is much superior! Ordinary soap opera have
inexcusably poor acting and the relationship are always a huge mess, no simple
triangles there, it's always octehedron or more complex and everyone sleeps
with everybody else and love is proclaimed every single episode. Characters in
Macross don't spell out their emotions (may be due to culture) and that alone
is superior to pretty any soap opera we have over here in U.S.

> >Claudia was indeed tragic, but the problem also stems from the fact that no
> >males showed any sort of interest for her.
>
> Or they just didn't show that, if any male showed interest in her.

She does seem to be in pretty good spirit though, maybe her memory of Fokker
is enough and she doesn't need another man to fill the void.

> >Misa did her best to win over Hikaru....
>
> I'd say she'd have won Hikaru over sooner if she wasn't so stubborn and
> fought with Hikaru constantly - you have to admit she really blew it several
> times when there was a chance for reconciliation.

Ah, but Hikaru keeps doing bone-headed things to piss her off! Insensitive
comments, being late for dates, completely oblivious to her feelings and display
of affections... most normal girls would have given up on him already. She is
human afterall.

> >Yeah, and she was the one who brought all that up to herself and has to take
> >all the blame. She is selfish and thoughtless (naively so) and don't realize
> >how much she hurt the people who care for her. She has the talent of driving
> >people away.
>
> I wouldn't put all the blame on her. That asshole cousin who's leeching off
> her was at least partially responsible.

Lin Kai Shor (?) certainly was a bloody leech. Always hated his guts, I suppose
Minmey stuck with him for so long because he was her first love(??).

> >> wuss who couldn't even deal with a small mob and he also made Kou look like
> >
> >Nina clearly picked Gato over Kou in the last episode, it's only his eventual
> >death that left her with no choice so she had to go back to Kou. My bet is if
> >another ace pilot come along who showed her the slightest bit of interest, she
> >would run away with him in no time.
>
> Hmm... I didn't see her giving Monsha much of her time.

Ah... but Monsha is a type 2 anime character, they almost never get any. Plus
he wasn't shown to be much of an ace himself losing to Kou.

> >Hikaru did show some skills dealing with
> >a mob in the "picnic" episode.
>
> I was referring to the "micron" mob from the city that had the resizing
> machine. His softness ultimately lead to the city's destruction.

Oh okay, he definitely showed poor judgement at that time, but there were no
signs of immediate danger impending at that point of the story. The mob just
wanted what they thought was rightfully theirs...

> I think Max has shown her enough respect (Macross 7 notwithstanding), by
> welcoming a former enemy and integrating her into human society by marrying

Ah, but he was lusting after her ever since he saw her in the video game center!
All he noticed was how beautiful and cute she looked. Then again, Milia at that
time didn't have much of personality other than being the vengeful warmongering
bitch from hell.

> her. After all, he could have locked her up as a sex slave without going
> through the institution of marriage and could have told her "this is what
> we do to prisoners of war in protoculture" (LOL). The show basically set

LOL, locking Milia up as a sex slave definitely has it's appeal. What an
enticing thought! 8)

> them up as part of the "peace though understanding and love" plot devices,
> also to make Misa feel her biological clock ticking.

Right, that exists more a a plot device than real love. Since Milia at that
time felt more shame and humiliation in front of Max than any other emotion
that can approximate love.

> Strange how the Valkyries are more popular than the character figures/dolls.
> Same thing goes for mobile suits. Which goes back to the mecha fanboy
> syndrome Kou suffers from. :)

Well... I am one of those that prefer the characters from Macross over the
Valkyries. The only reason I didn't buy any of those is because they are
completely UNposeable, and way too expensive. I never liked the designs of
the Valkyries and only bought 2 of the models when I was a kid (and regretted
doing so!).

> Eddie

Michael

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