The iMatt (mhanyo1@umbc.edu)
Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:35:09 -0400


>well? I suppose it depends if you really think it was them causing the
>control panel guys to drop their ATs and transform into goo....

see picard, all of your species, your entire history, begins right here, in
this little puddle of goo. ;-) sorry, couldn't help it, good line. ;-) I'm
looking more forward to seeing the rest of this series the more I hear about
it.

Matt "not quite but almost Zen in a can" Hanyok
http://deruberhanyok.freeservers.com/
-----------
"Why don't you fall to bits?"
I DON'T KNOW. I NEVER HAVE.
"I've seen skelingtons of birds and things and they all fall to bits."
PERHAPS IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE WHAT SOMETHING WAS, WHEREAS THIS IS WHAT I
AM.

- from a conversation between Death and a small child, in "Reaper Man" by
Terry Pratchett.
-----------

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org [mailto:owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org]On
Behalf Of Chris Maier
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:45 PM
To: gundam@aeug.org
Subject: RE: [gundam] (SEVERLY OT) Evangelion Question

It's been said that the animals survived the 3rd impact; after all, it
wasn't met for them. That means that Pen-Pen is still around somewhere.
 This also brings up an interesting point. Is it possible that other impacts
occur throughout the universe? If you've read the novel 3001, it was
revealed that the Monolith, if it was dissatisfied with a culture's
progress, could use it's power to destroy planets it was developing. It'd be
interesting if we could draw some Odysessey series/Eva pararrels here.
BTW what about all those who died(Misato, Ritsuko)did they "devolve" as
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org [mailto:owner-gundam@1u.aeug.org]On
Behalf Of Roland Thigpen
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:51 PM
To: gundam@aeug.org
Subject: Re: [gundam] (SEVERLY OT) Evangelion Question

On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Michael Wong x4241
<Michael.Wong@nsc.com> wrote:
>Dear List:

Good to know I am not the only one. Okay, I see you point but it is not
really
>fair to compare EVA with 6th. Sense or Wild Things because for Evangelion's
>case, even those who have seen it can't quite agree on what really happened
in
>the end. I would probably not be too please if someone told me how the 6th
>Sense ended, on the otherhand, knowing Wild Things' stupid ending wouldn't
ruin
>the experience for me too much because the story was ludicrous in the first
>place and the sole purpose of watching the film was to see Denise Richard's
>breasts and lesbian scene with Neve Campbell. If I knew I'd see Kevin's
Bacon
>(heh!) I wouldn't even have bothered boing.

Well, the reason I included Wild Things in there was because it was the
first movie in about 10 years that I had watched and not been able to tell
exactly how it would end 10 minutes into the film. It was surprising to me
that such a "soft porn" (for lack of a better phrase) type of film should
actually have such a twist ending.

Other than that though, it wasn't that good, I agree.

>The ending to the 6th. sense was
>not spoiled for me beforehand because I know enough to avoid reading any
posts
>in movie newsgroups and reviews that has to do with the movie. People who
read
>a message titled "Evangelion Question" should have the sense to know that
the
>content of it will have something to do with the plot/story pertaining to
the
>movie/series and NOT read it if they don't want to read "spoilers".
>
>> >> Please, put in some spoiler space for those kind of revelations like I
did here.
>> >>
>> >> Note: Do NOT read below if you don't want some major spoilers.
>> >>
>> >> s
>> >> p
>> >> o
>> >> i
>> >> l
>> >> e
>> >> r
>> >> s
>> >>
>>
>> Well, we just have different ideas of what constitutes death. In many
ways, yes they are dead....but for some reason, I don't think of what
happened as such.
>
>Okay, note also that there's really no evidence that they really became
merged
>into the "higher evolved" being either. The experiment could have failed
and
>left their souls burning in hell.
>

Note, I didn't say anything about higher evolution...see below.

>> Just one of the contradictions I can live with.
>
>Yup.
>
>
>> True, control is probably the wrong word. Still, it was his choice not to
join in the painless...yet joyless amalgamation being that mankind was
forming with Lillith/Rei III that caused its destruction and
Instrumentality's failure....if I'm remembering correctly (I only watched
the movie a couple times and right now a friend has my copy of it so I can't
rewatch it right now), that is why I said he controlled it. Everyone else
apparently had no real choice in the matter, they joined with Lillith.
Shinji on the other hand, still had the ability to choose. And his choice
could allow Instrumentality to continue or could stop it.
>
>I am not sure if he really had a choice either, I'll have to watch the end
of
>the series again to determine. The thought of being in a painless and
joyless
>amalgamation of sentient entity is really a scary thought, is that really
much
>of an evolution of us as a species? It sounded more like a de-evolution to
me
>as that is felt more like regressing from humans back to the amoeba than
>transforming to a higher being. Did Instrumentality really fail? Was the
>amalgamation really destroyed? I am not too sure about that either.

Well, have you ever heard the phrase "Returning to the womb"? That was what
Instrumentality was, a return to the form from which humanity sprang in an
attempt to join all of humanity together in total. Some will say that Gendo
wanted it to get back with the only woman he ever loved, Yui; some say Keel
did it so he could finally leave his body because he was the eternally
walking Jew, punished by God to forever walk the Earth to attone for his
crime; some might say it was an attempt to restart humanity from the
Darwinian dead end species it had become.

Whatever, it was a return to what we once were, so it was in part, a
de-evolution.

As for whether or not the amalgamation was destroyed, I don't know. I'd like
to think humanity wasn't completely wiped out except for Shinji and Asuka
(and combining the movie and the tv series endings would make it seem that
Shinji wouldn't want to live in a world without others), but that might not
be the case. After all, they may all be contained within Eva-1/Yui who as
you may have noticed is floating in space with the Lance of Longinius at the
end, as if towards a new destiny for a new people.

I don't
>understand why people consider the beginning of the series a bait to hook
in
>the otakus, it is the end of the Evangelion that got me interested in new
anime
>again! Guess I am not an otaku... (had given up anime 3 years before
watching
>new anime again, it was the first episodes of EVA that turned me off to new
>anime in the first place as I was tired of all the young teenagers piloting
>giant robots genre and I hate most all shoujo stuff.)
>

I don't know, I can see it in some ways. But I have a habit of seeing many
sides of almost any arguement. I may have my own, but I can usually see and
at least somewhat understand others. Hell, if you can understand the Nazi's
reasons for wanting to exterminate a people, although you despise the act
and those self same reasons, you might see what I mean by that.

>> So, while most of my values and morals are Christian, my faith itself
might not be consider wholy Christian....if that makes any sense....
>
>It does, you are implying that you believe your God is more than just the
God as
>portrayed by Christianity and the Bible. That view is already much more
>tolerant than a lot of people out there. 8)
>
>> Roland
>
>Michael
>

Hee, thanks.

Roland

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