Richie Ramos (gaijin@i-manila.com.ph)
Sun, 02 Jul 2000 13:31:49 +0800


>>no, it dosn't... if a mobile suit had to stay still for a hand-to-hand
>>weapon to be effective Beam Sabers wouldn't be so widely used in UC
>You make it sound like I make beam saber useless.... keep in mind, comparing
>real soldiers in a battlefield close range weapons are useless if you are a
>good soldier and able to distance yourself, but close range weapons are very
>important

aye, that's the thing eh? i have seen only a few times when GM uses its
saber...while the aces use it a lot. perhaps it is a tribute to their
skills that they can get close enough to use and use to great effect those
sabers. so, yes,sabers are useful, but one needs skill to use them...

>>the missiles are homing missiles and it also has the head vulcans and
>>the Kai has a beam submachingun... and heat blades are effective
>>weapons.. didn't you see that Dom tropn cleave that Zaku in half with
>>it's heat saber in 0083?
>OK, this is the part that really annoys me, I said gundam (ac) vs. Gundam
(UC)
>Heat and shell weapons do little or no damage.

ah, yes, so heatsabers have no effect. so the dom, the zaku and the gouf
have ineffective weapons. Just as the sandrock. and also the fact that
shell weapons can't do damage...well. if the "bullet" is big and fast
enough, anything can be creamed.

>>> >i'd imagine Wing gundam would be passing fair at space combat but being
>>> >designed for atmosphere
>>IF the sniper cna see them.. keep in mind the terrain i specified. a
>>"sniper" by any definition relies on having a poerfull long-ranged wepon
>>and striking form a distance at a clear target.. one shot, one kill..
>>how does the sniper do that when in canyons and hills and forrests and
>>jungles where he could be trudging along and all of a suddne *bump* "oh,
>>um.. hello Mr. Dragon-Fang.. granted in such a situation both units
>>would be equally surprised moste likely but i'd put my money on the one
>>buiolt or close-range... and yes i know they could rprobably her each
>>other coming but that's not always a reliable method of tracking a
>>target.. not reliable enough anyway ot justify fireing a heavy
>>beam-rifle blindly into dense undergrowth
>Where do you think most wars take place?!! Geez?!! Snipers either need a
clear
>line of sight or need to find one and keep in mind most bases are NOT in
>forests

Either which way, the concept of a sniper that is as tall as a building is
just as hooey as the Nataku's arms. if the Nataku can be seen by it, then
vice versa. it all comes down to pilot skills in avoidance and targeting.
But once the nataku can close in, it puts the sniper at a disadvantage. A
beam sniper rifle is a good long range weapon, but it's hell to reposition
at close range.

>>The one MS who I think would have a
>>> chance is Heavy arms it has all that fire power BUT it has all those shell
>>> weapons a shot in the right place from a GM Sniper could make it go
>boom....
>>dude, you're not talking about a possible vulnerability that ANY
>>gun-heavy vehicle wouldn't have
>I know but it carry missles and shell weapons such a possibility is
diminished
>if the weapons were beams weapons

well, the heavy arms is the heavy arms. and! if the heavy arms had all
beam weapons, then it must have a nice and juicy BIG reactor that can be
hit in the same way as an ammo drum. same thing.

that's the reason why I find the heavy arms concept laughable at times. I
prefer something simpler.

>>> >Heavyarms and Heavyarms Kai would be best used as defensive weapons at
>>> >bases (Heavyarms) and colonies/carriers (Heavyarms Kai) with suppporting
>>> >movbile suits covering it while it ducks in for more ammo it can be a
>>> >very potent machine...
>>> unlike the Zaku there was never any mention of Ammo cartidges or E-pacs
for
>>> the Heavy Arms and other Wing MS's, that would mean they have to dock to
>>> reload.
>>not nessicarily, for all we know the ammo bays of the Heavyarms type
>>gundams cold be made so they could be reloaded by competnet crews in MS
>>in the field.. remember Trowa kept his gundam on the back of a Flatbed,
>>not docked in a fully equiped maintenance berth
>still the fact is the Heavy arms needs to be disabled for a few secs to
reload
>unlike E pacs and such

errr, how many shots do e-pacs have? then they have to reload right? 15
shots or so? nice idea, but that's still gonna take some time to load...so
it's the same thing.

>>i've already coverd this.. UC already has aestablished the value of
>>close-combat weapons.. and before you can move to avoid something you
>>need to know there is something to be avoided.. stealth to hide and
>>speed in a quick dash to lash-out from hiding
>Oh, ok so you're assuming all sensors are broken right?! and keep in mind
you
>DO need to deactivate the radar Jammer to use the weapons

Not in the case of the Deathscythe. it uses some sort of holographic
cloaking device, combined with some weird ass space case stealth stuff that
isn't based on minovski tech nor does it steal too much energy from the
reactor. It would be able to attack without having to turn anything off.

It's not impossible for it to be able to fool most sensors. the thing is,
the moment he moves fast (and in battle one always moves fast) that's when
he gives his presence away...but if he's in stealth mode....damn.

>>> Altron, like shenglong has Flamethrowers very close range, I figure that
>an
>>> Ace in a Gouf can have no trouble disabling and capturing such an MS and
>just
>>> like before it can also betaken down by one of my favorite guys the GM
>Sniper
>>> from far away.
>>an ace in a gouf would be decapitated by the Dragon Fangs befoer it
>>could use it's heat-rod, and from all the resources i've had access to
>>gouf's aare rarely if ever armed with anything more powerfull than a
>>handfull of machine-cannons.. even without Gundanium shells of up to
>>120mm have been stopped cold by Gundam armor.. in fact Amuro got strafed
>>to hell and back without more than scratched paint back when gundam
>>armor was still called Luna titanium
>geez... you must not be reading everything, you're talking gundam AC vs.
>Gundam UC if shells are useless what do you think flamethrowers are gonna
>do???!!

Number one...shells are not useless in any war. it just takes the right
calibur and type. Number two...Flamethrowers can be deadly if they can
overheat the cooling systems, if they can blind or melt sensor arrays.the
idea in practical application is not to melt the armor, but to toast the
pilot or the machine. Now, if the Shen-Long's flame thrower is actually
using something that is plasma or napalm based, then it gets worse. if
it's plasma, then you're talking a beam saber without a magnetic bottle to
keep it in shape. if it's napalm like, then that fire will stay on the ms,
gradually overheating it.

>>> >nobody Mentions Epyon, so i will, it has arguable the most potent
>>> >close-combat weapon a mobile suit can carry, and is fast enough that for
>>> >the most part it's not as hampered by the lack of a ranged weapon as one
>>> >might think, again, like Altron this would be a good unit to bust in
>>> >shredding whatever got in it's way heading stright in to duel wiht the
>>> >command or other important unit (and by duel i don't mean cross swords
>>> >and fight honorably, i mean evade/destroy all obsticales until you can
>>> >shove that beam-sword into the comander's MS right where it hurts)
>>> You make it sound like the commanders just sitting there with a "Hit Me"
>>> sign..... not to mention that you are talking UC not AC.... their
>>> reinforcments don't just sit there like wing, "oh my, it fast"..... Epyon
>has
>>> to get close, We are talking about "in your face" close, a Quebleley can
>take
>>> it down.....
>>a Quebleley, i thought that was a newtype unit.. and if i'm not mistaken
>>newtypes are a rare breed... and i wasn't just talking commanders but
>>any important-looking units.. and incombat who are you gonna worry about
>>more.. the purple gundam that just zipped by or the 10 or 20 other guys
>>shooting at you? again i realize Epyon is an "in-you-face" mecha as you
>>so eloquently put it but time and time again MS in UC have been called
>>to battle at arm's length so a machine like Epyon wouldn't be too
>>disadvantaged especially with it's Zero system.. speaking of which i
>>noticed that you didn't say anything about my commentary on Wing Zero
>Geez... if a Newtype is rare WTF is a zero Sytem? keep in mind there is
ALICE
>and other NewType Mimicing stuff, not to mention Zero Mimics Newtypes which
>means that it IS Artifical and make the pilot go crazy.

the Zero ystem only makes one go crazy if there is not enough training to
think in patterns that the Zero can understand. the way I saw it, it
interprets everything in your head, so one must be careful to focus in one
specific thoughts before using it. otherwise, one goes crazy. so that's
avoidable. Artificial Newtypes are plain walking time bombs, while the
real thing...aye, those guys are deadly.

The epiyon in itself is very deadly if one knows how to use the speed
inherent in it. with the heat whip and the beam saber, it becomes very
deadly indeed.

>>> can be taken care of by anything with funnels or bits even the Elmeth
(or
>>> whatever its called)
>>funnels or bits are newtype weapons and yo can't alway shave a newtype
>>whenever you want one.. funnels and bits can also take care of anything
>>from GMs to Mobile armors unless they have the best of the best of the
>>best piloting them.. are you going to dismiss all those designs as well?
>God damn it is fair for you to have The Zero System and the pilot to be in
>perfect control, but you get your panties in a knot when I mention a newtpe
>whew.....

To be fair, if the wing boys are as good as they fight in the series, then
its inevitable that they will end up fighting a newtype. and god help the
newtype who tries peeking into those twisted brains of theirs. They will
be outmaneuvered most probably, but when it comes to sheer ingenuity and
crazy tactics, the gboys have an edge...not to mentiuon their suicidal
thing. but, the gboys have to fight as a team, or else they will be very
much at a disadvantage.

>Keep in mind, I don't like the story, I have no problem witht the MS design,
>but keep in mind your talking about Commando shit, thats close to impossible
>realistically, I doubt that the US Army sends one ranger in to capture an
area
>even if he was a "super" ranger......

the wing gundams were not commando in the real sense...they were terror MS
and they were distractions, and their pilots were more saboteurs and
special forces than anything else...those guys were just preparing the way
for a colony drop...and with all five attacking at separate areas, they
were damn good at keeping the forces frgmented.

>And WTF?!! you're talking about Wing as superior to everything in the UC,
and
>you talk as if close range is the best type of offense, no... its not, if
>soldiers ran in with only a Bayonet when the other team is laying down some
>serious fire I doubt it'll work...

perhaps it's still the archetype of the samurai here, where the best square
off in combat?

If I wanted to rage against the dying of the light, I would have brought a
flashlight.

Richard "Richie" Ramos, Associate Editor
Localvibe -- Changing the way you see your city!
www.localvibe.com
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