Lim Jyue (
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:45:45 +0800

At 16:07 06/18/2000 -0700, -Z- wrote:
>The farmsats are not large enough to have a weather system, but that doesn't
>mean that they won't have a distinctive climate.

        I agree with the part about having a distinct climate, such as
temperature and humidity, but we were discussing the possibility of showers
within a farmsat, which, as it is too small to have clouds, would seem
unlikely to have rain.

        (Damnit, I have to get out of that stupid report mode.. =)

>Remember, the initial Zeon breakaway preceded the War by a good twenty years
>and the Zabi family was in charge for an entire decade, becoming bigger and
>bolder all the while, before it launched its attack.

        And the Federation did *nothing* major besides sanctions against
Zeon for a whole 10 years?

        (I was really tempted to say, "What a useless government." =)

        I guess the lack of action on the part of the Federation really
suggests to the Zabis that the Federation were nothing more than moles in
the ground.

        A sanctions of 10 years against a single cylinder may have been
effective, but a sanctions against an entire Side is not really effective.
First, the population base is larger (and basic necessity isn't really a
problem since each cylinder is supposed to be self-sufficient). This implies
that there will be a larger manufacturing base available, which means, for
most purposes, Zeon does not really fear an embargo.

        (I mean, so what if the Federation stops the sale of what is
essentially luxury items to a colony in Side 3?)

        Material for manufacturing *is* a problem, but not unsurmountable.
Firstly, recycling of material can save a lot, especially since Side 3 was
effectively a dictatorship after the Zabis consolidated power.

        Secondly, Side 3 is on the other side of the Moon; they can easily
launch mining missions towards the asteroid belts or on the back of the Moon
for material; with the Federation having the majority of their bases away
from Side 3, the blockading fleet (if any) would be hard pressed to catch
all of these expedition, so Zeon will definitely get the material they needed.

        So, an embargo doesn't really make sense. But on hindsight, what
*can* the Federation do besides embargo or war?

        If the Federation went to war immediately and won, the image they
project may be that of a Big Brother willing to use force; in the short
term, the other Sides will probably be cowed into submission, but in the
long run, the Sides would probably break away one by one or en-massed.

        Let's not talk about what will happen if the Federation lost..

        (BTW, when was Granada built?)

        And that, I think, is the main problem with the Federation. They are
trying to rule entities that are self-sufficient for most practical purposes.

>As noted previously, Side 6 had an "arrangement" with Zeon comparable to that
>between Switzerland and Nazi Germany.

        Uhm.. My initial point was that Zeon's gassing of the cylinders were
pretty well know, and no matter how well justified the actions, the thought
that the same could easily occur to Side 6 (and nearly did, in 0080) must
have occured to *some* residents of Side 6.

        While your analogy of Switzerland and Nazi Germany is correct in
some sense, we are not talking about the same type of disinformation
available to the Nazis in WW2, and furthermore, it's a lot more difficult to
believe any justification Zeon might have made when you are living in the
same type of cylinder that Zeon just gassed...

        Side 6 is an anomaly; aside from the fact that Side 6 may simply
exists as a plot device, the Federation and Zeon Archduchy must have had
some seriously reasons to leave Side 6 neutral; Zeon did have a reason, but
the Federation? In my impression, the Federation viewed itself as lord and
master over everything human; a neutral side will definitely be a slap in
the face for them. But again, attacking Side 6 in an attempt to seize it
might result in a political backlash that would only benefit Zeon.

>Once war broke out, the battle lines were clearly drawn between the Federation
>and Zeon, with all of the Sides except Side 6 in the Federation camp as a
>matter of survival. The Moon, however, remained an inconstant and, albeit not
>neutral, unallied faction.

        All these does not quite explained why Zeon had still so much
support amongst the Spacenoids. Let me try to rephrase what I trying to get at:

        1. Zeon's idealogy might appeal to the Spacenoids; it advocates
independance from the Federation, which is something each Side is certainly
capable of. This may explain why support for Zeon is so strong in certain
        2. However, Zeon's role in Operation British should be relatively
well know; it's not everyday that a cylinder drops out of the sky. Now, I
assume this will be something feared even more by the Spacenoids than the
Earthnoids -- after all, if their colony cylinder is the one chosen to be
grounded, the inhabitants are all too likely to be dead before or during the
descent. And it's all too easy to be chosen.

        This should outweigh any positive aspect of Zeon's idealogy; they
might preach about freedom and independance from the Federation, but any
unbelievers will be literally be given fire and brimstone. Zeon's action
definitely speaks a different language than what I precieve the mouthpieces
to be saying.

        Now, if the Spacenoids does seen Zeon as a serious threat to their
own survival, why was their contribution to the war seemingly minor? We see
Side 6 as neutral, Side 7 as a military testing ground for the V strategy,
but all the other Sides were barely mentioned, other than the fact that they
were badly mauled in the early fighting.

        In essence, the picture I have of the OYW is bascially Earth vs Side
3. The other Sides, the Moon and Luna II all seems to have a "soft" attitude
towards an enemy which could concievable kill them all in the name of the
Master Race.

        This would make sense if a Titan-like oppression of the Spacenoids
was in force before the OYW, but we hear nothing like this..

Lim Jyue
ICQ: 24737555

I am careful not to confuse excellence with perfection.
Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God's business.

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