Alfred Urrutia (
Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:46:28 -0700

garrick lee wrote:

> pointless vs senseless, what's the difference?
> all wars ARE pointless.

Prove this. I not saying it from the position of a warmonger, I just
think you're giving a kneejerk reaction without actually looking at past
wars and some of the key benefits they gave, whether they be pleasing to
the stomach or not.

> that a war is being fought in the first place
> indicates a complete breakdown of human thought
> processes. people, though they might be individually

Negotiations, not thought processes. When talk fails, actions take
over. Just because it's a large group vs. a few individuals doesn't
make it stupid.

> smart, in great numbers have a capacity for great
> stupidity (me included). there may be logic to the
> leaders that ignite war, but they are ultimately
> pointless to everyone else involved. who is the
> greater fool -- the fool or the people who follow the
> fool?

During WWII (a cliche' example, I know), even though you weren't part of
the group that got the U.S. into the War, would you not agree that
stopping Germany, Japan and Italy was a just cause? A large number of
people *voluteered* to fight in WWII. Were they all idiots? They were
driven by the idea that the Axis was wrong *and* by the idea that
nobody, but nobody pushes us around. The Axis asked for a war. Fine,
they got one. Even if it's bloody, you should sometimes give them what
they want. Somebody hurts someone I love, he's asking to have his
kneecaps shoved up his ass, whether he's aware of that fact or not.

> can a war be just? i don't think so. it's sometimes
> necessary, but never justified. we humans just have
> this need to make ourselves feel good, rid ourselves
> of guilt and rationalize why we make war (ironically
> -- it's our rationalizations that never ever make
> sense...sometimes i think dolphins have it good). no
> matter how lofty the ideal you hold, i don't believe
> it justifies destruction (i try not to think in terms
> of good vs. evil, so i just classify war as a
> destructive act. it works for me). people who believe
> that idealisms and creeds are worth more than real
> things (like other people) think too highly of
> themselves. religious wars come to mind. may all the
> participants die soonest. >:P

You assume a universal definition of good, evil and just. There is no
such thing. Sure, war is destructive. So is a forest fire or a
volcanic eruption or a tornado. But benefits come from all of their
destruction. This world is ruled by chaos. Just because it's a higher
order, planned chaos does not mean that war is wrong. Many wars are
started for the wrong reasons, but joining in to stop them, and thereby
participating in them, is not necessarily wrong.

> war produces the most technology, but if that's the
> price of technology, i'm not sure it's worth it. :P

You're saying that on a device that was spawned by war.

> me, i think life is a big joke (not necessarily
> funny). and death know how it goes. :D

That's a defeatist attitude.


"In the case of our network, we're trying to shove a ten-knuckle fist up
 a five-knuckle ass."
                                        - StJohn, on real-world analogies

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