Emery Calame (palaeomerus@excite.com)
Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:36:29 -0800 (PST)

On 27 Mar 2000 14:38:49 -0000, gundam@aeug.org wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:08:32 -0800 (PST) Emery Calame
<palaeomerus@excite.com> wrote:
> Yeah, and the the Zeon also gassed and nuked entire colonies and kill
their entire populations at the beginning of the 1 Year War, and then there
is Operation British, Operation Star Dust, and the asteroids Char's Neo-Zeon
drop on Earth, all of which undoubtably killed millions. Which is better?

Hmm. My understanding was that the Fed used their share of nukes and gas and
were more or less ready to sign the Antarctic treaty. In any case the Feds
do not appear to be reluctant to use overkill force, blow up civilians,
slaughter tons of innocents or participate in other forms of atrocity. Earth
was just an easier target than Side 3. Earth didn't have any space
fortresses for instance(at least none that I know of). And they had to
launch a whole new fleet....

As for StarDust I'm not sure you can blame this on Zeon. Remember that Delaz
was running a splinter terrorist group of extremists and was personally
loyal to Gren Zabi prior to A Bao A Kou (Not Dozzle or Kirishia) and to boot
was apparently more concerned with Zeon's loss of face and honor than he was
with the fact that the war had cost Mankind 1/2 of it's population. (Or at
least a whole hell of a lot of people.) I would think that the new Side 3
civilian goverment was slapping it's collective forehead while at the same
time chuckling about the Federation's discomfort.

> >I'm not sure ...was Tomino involved in 0083?
> >

>> Gee, sounds alot like Nazi Germany. A poor, misguided people, given a
dream to believe in, an enemy to direct their anger and fears >at, the
weapons to fight a war to advance that dream, and noble >soldiers fighting
and being sacrificed by their leaders to further >that leader's cause. Also
similar to Char's Neo-Zeon in CCA. And >prob Hamaan's Zeon forces as well,
but I haven't seen ZZ.

Char's Neo-Zeon was a fairly small force if I remember right and acting more
or less on it's own although it had the support of side 3. Axis had already
been depopulated by that point and I think Neo Zeon was sort of an IRA type
organization run by rich guys with big plans but not quite a real national

A few Geara Doga pilots switched sides at the end and actually tried to help
Amuro push the bigger piece of Axis out of orbit....Whether they did this
out of respect for Amuro's determination, a sense of remorse, or some kind
of New Type epiphany due to the psycho frame reamins to the viewer to

As I recall Hamman Kahn and young MInerva Zabi had the support of Side 3 but
were still a smallish force that had done quite well in Axis but wasn't
quite a full match for the Fed. Luckily the AEUG and Titans had pretty much
wiped each other out leaving a confused and once again headless chimera in
place of what would have been an unasailable enemy.

I'm not sure that Zeon(classic ) ever reached Nazi-like levels of evil(they
were VERY determined and ruthless) but they certainly were nationalistic
enough and Gren seemed to want to push them in that direction.
> Hmm, not really sure what to compare that to, although it most likely
could be compared to the US and maybe the rest of the Allies (using a WWII
analogy). Why? Because most of the time, Americans view themselves (er,
ourselves) as superior to all other nations, and suited to acting as a
police force the world over. And with the largest military found, sometimes
arrogant soldiers, who can have their moments of villiany, but somehow
usually end up looking like the "good guys" by many. Yet, our government can
be corrupt, as can our military, just as the Federation's.

I'd say that the Fed is a classic projection of a moderately socialist
European style progressive mega-Nation. Think UN/EEC united around a single
gargantuan project(deporting all the stinky riff-raff into space and getting
them to send half their pay back home) involving the restoration of the
Earth's natural state and dealing with severe over population.
> Note: I am NOT trying to say the US is better, superior, etc. Only that
our government often makes concerted efforts to make our populance believe
so. Also, as Tomino (I believe) grew up in a post-WWII Japan, this would
only be a natural inclination.

I'm not sure but Zeon has both the positive and negative elements of
Imperial Japan without an obvious class system (beyond the dictator's
immediate family and friends).

Okay...crazy theory time....Maybe Tomino used MSGundam to say to the kids of
Japan that they shouldn't trust the western hegemony of "the free world"
(Fed)or their more "traditional imperial-oriented "(Zeon)parents but become
a new type of Japanese person...

a new type: someone who didn't want conquest and glory or huge, unweildly,
autocratic one-size-fits-all alliances but to live and love and somehow
advance the human condition though peaceful and voluntary means (simple
vocal persuasion and empathy).

He made it clear that both of those two forces (empire and UN) would want to
use these hypothetical Japanese kids as weapons and pawns. Tomino also may
have warned against being a heartless neutral merchantalist nation(another
role he might have felt that Japan was in danger of falling into) by showing
the despicable enabling attitude of the Lunarians..

He made it clear that most of the wars come from resource issues(JEF funded
upstart nations) or idealogical manipulation(Everybody else). Or maybe I'm
on crack...I dunno.

Anyway, be a new-type kids! There's too many old types as it is! And don't
be a fake new type cause they go crazy and kill their parents and switch
sides every other episode and that's when they don't think everybody is a
long lost sibling! Uh..... and also beam sabre's and pychic girls you have a
crush on do do not mix!

> Roland

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