Roland Thigpen (
27 Mar 2000 14:38:49 -0000

On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:08:32 -0800 (PST) Emery Calame <> wrote:

>If you wacth the MS Gundam movies and Zeta Gundam you should have a pretty
>good idea that the Fed military can be supremely arrogant. In the original
>series a fed officer tried to court martial the White Base refugee crew(who
>had been pressed into service BTW) for messing with Federation prototypes
>and experimental materials. He wanted to imprison or execute them for saving
>the suits and ship from Char's commando raid on side 7.

And in F91, Federation troops wanted to use children as shields against Crossbone Vanguard fire. And then, after it was proven that Seabook could pilot the F91, they were forced to remain on the ship (just like the White Base kids).

>It is also made apparent that Zeon troops tended to treat civilians better
>during the Earth occupation than the Federation troops who were supposedly
>defending them. Zeon handed out chocolate bars, bought poor folks free
>meals, and were pretty much as easy as they could be on a hostile subject
>population. The Feds were breaking into peoples houses getting drunk,
>trashing the place and taking whatever they wanted. When the owners
>complained they were beaten and told that they should be grateful for the
>"protection" they were being provided.

Yeah, and the the Zeon also gassed and nuked entire colonies and kill their entire populations at the beginning of the 1 Year War, and then there is Operation British, Operation Star Dust, and the asteroids Char's Neo-Zeon drop on Earth, all of which undoubtably killed millions. Which is better?

>Look at General Reville. He keeps an experimental ship with a dead crew(
>staffed by kids and refugees) in the thick of battle to get test data on new
>types, x-suits, and just confuse the Zeon forces. He finally resupplies them
>at Jaburo and just sends them out again to spear-head a feint against

Well, they were sent back out after they had proven themselves. Now, don't get me wrong. It was still a despicable act. And really, you can't judge all Federation troops by this, just as you can't judge all Zeon troops by the actions above (although the mere fact that any could join or still fight on either side after killing several billion, well...)


>I'm not sure ...was Tomino involved in 0083?

As I already said, he was not.

BTW, if I sounded like I was biting someone's head off, I apologize. It was not meant in that manner. I am simply used to trying to make my statements and back them by hard facts (well, sometimes and when I can).

>In Gundam the Zeon were usually portrayed as an enlightened but misguided
>people. They were under the Spell of Gren Zabi who was prehaps the most
>rabid and cold hearted of all the Spacenoid zealots. Gren saw Zeon(the
>nation) as the ultimate expression of human evolution and believed that this
>would be the last war. That's why he was willing to go so far. Once the
>"excess population" was disposed of he though he would lead mankind to a
>permanent and properous destiny amongst the stars. His own father the
>previoud Dictator was unwilling to allow Gren's dreams to go any further and
>he attempted to surrender to Reville before Gren used the "Colony laser" to
>put an end to his overtures and the bulk of the Federation Space forces.

Gee, sounds alot like Nazi Germany. A poor, misguided people, given a dream to believe in, an enemy to direct their anger and fears at, the weapons to fight a war to advance that dream, and noble soldiers fighting and being sacrificed by their leaders to further that leader's cause. Also similar to Char's Neo-Zeon in CCA. And prob Hamaan's Zeon forces as well, but I haven't seen ZZ.

>The Federation is sort of a Hydra. It is corrupt, nepotistic, and often the
>clutches of the Gaia worshiping Earth fearing zealots who think that Space
>is driving people insane and that Earth must guide her excess population who
>inhabit the colonies and annihilate those who think that they can exist
>without the holy Earth. Most of the time the Fed can't seem to decide who is
>in charge and they all follow wimpy factions and consensus governments until
>the ussual melt-down/coup/civil war erupts. The Fed is viewed by Spacenoids
>as anachronistic, schitzophrenic, and too reactionary to get along with by

Hmm, not really sure what to compare that to, although it most likely could be compared to the US and maybe the rest of the Allies (using a WWII analogy). Why? Because most of the time, Americans view themselves (er, ourselves) as superior to all other nations, and suited to acting as a police force the world over. And with the largest military found, sometimes arrogant soldiers, who can have their moments of villiany, but somehow usually end up looking like the "good guys" by many. Yet, our government can be corrupt, as can our military, just as the Federation's.

Note: I am NOT trying to say the US is better, superior, etc. Only that our government often makes concerted efforts to make our populance believe so. Also, as Tomino (I believe) grew up in a post-WWII Japan, this would only be a natural inclination.

>Balanced between them are the Moon and the Jupiter Energy fleets who seem to
>pull strings and get rich off both sides.

Ah, Switzerland and the Middle East!

>Gundam UC is usually about the small folks who get caught up in these huge
>grinding gears and the hardships they go through. I think Gundam is not only
>anti-war but perhaps a reaction against those who follow ideaologies,
>nationalism, racism(newtypes vs. old types), religeons(Zanscarl), kook
>history(Cosmo Babylon), and whatever else to the point where they go to war.
>Pretty much all organizations are evil except those that are formed to calm
>things down or prevent conflict(Kalaba, Lond Bell, AEUG, League Militaire



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