Richie Ramos (
Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:11:09 +0800

At 09:07 AM 3/9/00 -0800, you wrote:
>i like replying after fed (because we disagree so
>often, like now). where there's fed(eration), there's
>an axe wielding zaku. :P

yes, and it's quite amusing. now it's my turn.

<switches on beam saber. "may the force be with you..." OOPS. wrong .....>

>--- Federico Makabenta <> wrote:
>> Sorry about starting that "I hate Relena" stuff. :P
>yeah, and what about my head on a spear? *sniffle*
>> Although it was mentioned in passing and as a side
>> joke really, (actually
>> I'm really kinda neutral towards her) and I did
>> mention that I really didn't
>> like GW. Well, Ms. Peacecraft does have a haters
>> club mainly made up of
>> women who hate her pairing with Heero Yuy.
>uhrm, i take exception to being lumped with THOSE
>kinds of wing afficionados. i like relena's character
>(so reminiscent of the ancient kings and queens)
>because i see beyond what the shallow fanboy/fangirl
>sees. all the rest is just plain crapola -- and if
>you (in the generic sense), can't tell the difference
>between genuine appreciation, and brainless shoujo
>shounen drivel, you oughtta be dragged out, strapped
>to a leo, and left to die an ignoble cannon fodder
>death. :P

Fact of the matter is, Relena is integral to GW. People hate her because
she is so IMPERFECT for a character that can supposedly catch the heart of
Heero (whom yaoi fans prefer to be with Duo). But that's the beauty of it.
 Relena IS imperfect. But her ideals struggle always towards peace, and
that is what Heero admires and respects. Love? not really, but he does
see her as a symbol of what he is trying to achieve. Relena is a sniveling
little spoiled brat, and that is part of her character. But, to see her
face down a gun? it's not being an idiot. it shows exactly how much guts
she has, however misplaced in intention. Later on, specially in EW, she
begins to learn how to use her guts and her ideals. She's a dynamic
character in that sense, and I think it's better than having static
characters who never change throughout the whole course of the series.

>> BTW, as a side note, what happened to the folk who
>> got into this list
>> because of Gundam Wing the first time around? I
>> heard the GWML is awash with
>> women who really don't discuss aspects of Gundam
>> that we do. Some cases they
>> even trade fanfics laced with yaoi (boy love)
>> elements.
>what do you mean what happened to them? there weren't
>that many, were there? i'm still here lurking and
>reading all the gundam mail that come my way (you guys
>post like damn the people here post from

What's wrong with that? If anything, women fans show me aspects of Gundam
I had never considered before. Their focus on entirely non-guy aspects of
it gives me a new view on things.

>> Taking from what Mark said, where will these young
>> people who are just
>> discovering Gundam from the first time go to? Better
>> us fans who've been
>> around and know a bit more about what the entire
>> thing is about I guess.
>> Imagine the shock of a young kid getting on a GWML
>> and seeing a Heero, Duo
>> and Trowa love triangle unfold - it may just make
>> him a Gundam hater for
>> life. :)

well, that is the risk anyone takes with the internet. we can't stop them
from doing that.

>you really don't think too much of wing fans, do you?
>*smacks fed around with a beam tomahawk*

hehehheheheh. I'm a wiung fan too, it's just that I admit to the inherent
faults and weaknesses of the series because, for heaven's sake, it's just a
cartoon, LOL!

>what exactly is your point, fed? from what i know,
>yaoi content seems to be centered on g wing, the most
>shonen of all gundams. haven't come across UC yaoi
>in all my searching the net. but then again, i'm a
>lazy surfer.

I have. Amuro and Char. EEEEK. I appreciate the ;literary genre, but by
nature UC characters are not very tailored for yaoi, perhaps because they
are not androgynous enough...unlike wing, which is well, designed for it.

>homophobia stems from ignorance. and you know what
>they say -- the most violent about it are the most
>likely to be...

errrr, into bondage? <smacks own head>

>but g wing IS a rehash of old stuff, even moreso than
>the UC followups -- TOS, to be precise. some would
>say it's a rip-off of 0079. and that's a big reason
>why many oldschool fans despise wing.
>that's funny though -- i'm a macross fan, and i don't
>despise macross II nearly as much as i *theoretically*
>should, given the oldschool-fan-school-of-thought.
>yes, i think it's a hack, but i get with it. robotech
>3000 is gonna give me a pain in the intestines, but
>i'll get with it.

G wing is good in the sense that it updates the story...I don't mind
rehashes, as long as they rewrite to new sensibilities.

>> > The protestations of UC-bigotry that have been
>> cropping up on
>> > this list are just plain silly. Welcome the
>> newcomers and show them our
>> > ways; I'll lay odds that fans whose first exposure
>> to Gundam is by way of
>> > Wing will find lots to like in the rest of the
>> saga.
>i'll say it just once: this UC-bigotry, perhaps better
>recognized as oldschool bigotry, is a crock of shit.
>excuse the language. but it's true. feel free to
>knock me because i'm new to gundam (one year, big
>whoopee, duh), but i know i don't look down my nose at
>newcomers to whatever i'm an old timer of.

Heck, for me, UC or AC doesn't really matter. They're all just
interpretations of a basic story. fine by me.

>> I have doubts about that, especially the women
>> who'll like Gundam for
>> another reason. ;P
>*pounds fed again*

May I join in?

>> These are the
>> > Gundamaniacs of tomorrow, people. Get with it or
>> get left behind.
>> True. *sigh* tis our fate as UC fans.
>aaaaaa, where does this kind of elitism get the entire
>nowhere. end of story. i'll shaddap now.

Aye well.

..silence is the language of the heart...

Richard Ramos

ICQ 12914919, 141667284 (pager), 09174024780 (cel)

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