Chien Ting Chin (chinc@sten.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca)
Tue, 8 Feb 2000 19:05:10 -0500 (EST)


Hi, I am combining 2 independent conversaions on Gundam Simulation and
also CC'ing to GML.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 Miffylead@aol.com wrote:
> Actually, the game I have made uses a completly different system than
> Gundam Simulation. Although the combat is much more detailed than
> it. Also the game will use an experience system and it may be able to
> be fused with the robotech role-playing game(for out of mecha combat
> and or another fun RPG).
> Also, the game does not need to use Hexagons, instead it uses a ruler to
> see how far you can go. And distance too.

I see, so it's a Games Workshop type of game you guys are playing. Nothing
against them myself. But I thought their game system, with their thick
rulebooks, are too involved for me to get into at this point, because I
already have too many fun activities going on. GS is so simple (it takes
about 15 minutes to read the complete rules) that anyone can get into it
and start having fun.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2000, Richard Holman wrote:
> >By this I suppose you mean terrain rules. I am not as keen on this one.
> >Notice GS already has a kind of space terrain: asteroids. See below *
> Fair enough, we wanted to do scenarios based on the actual footage, and to
> add 8th MS to the game.

Sounds great! I think you can do a lot of scenarios with the Obstruction
(asteroid) rule already in place in GS.

> >1. has the quality of chess or checker: easy to learn, fun to play, hard
> >to master. That's why I think GS as it is, is already a very good game:
> >simple rules, but looks like the possibilities of strategy is very rich.
>
> Agreed, but this is the charm of the game. We just thought that some tweaks
> would help for those times when we wanted a different taste.

Right on.
 
> No, we were thinking of more mecha, we have worked out playable versions of
> the GM Commandos, and some of the Zaku variants.
> ...
> >2. recreates some classical battles in the Gundam series: Battle of
> >Odessa, Operation Star One (Battle of A Bao A Qu), or the Assult on
> >Asparas base in 08MST, some of the main battles in Zeta and CCA would be
> >good too.
>
> All very well and good, and we are looking for it from a plug-in view, all
> of our equipment and rules can be played with the raw basics, but can also
> plug in levels according to the players desire, similar to how there are
> three levels to the Starblazer fleet game.

I am afraid we may still be talking different language here. I am not
against adding GM-C, Zaku variants, or Zeta mechs, but I am not keen on
having units with every possible combination of stats. To me, the big
attraction of chess (Starcraft) is that all the various types of units are
abstractized to a few archetypical units, so a knight (hydralisk) is a
knight (hydralisk), a bishop (carrier) is a bishop (carrier). There's no
in-between of a knight and a bishop (a cheaper, weaker land-based carrier
that can burrow). Having GM or Zaku variants raise the temptation of
creating super-GMs that are almost-Gundam, or Zaku Kai that are
almost-Gelgoog. I think we should have GM/Zaku distinct from
Gundam/Gelgoog and not create super-GM's or sub-Gundams.

But there's an exception to that, I think it could be fun to add
scenario-specific heroes with special attributes and functions (e.g.
Aina's Zaku-Dom), but I think heroes should be limited to one per side per
game. And perhaps there should be a "lose the game if your hero die" rule
like most Starcraft scenarios.

Of course it would also be a lot of fun replacing the game pieces with
variants without changing their stats. So you can play GS with 0080
pieces, MSV pieces or Zeta pieces.

> >** I really like the idea of ships, I think they should
> >2. repair or supply MS. So the player can't just abandon the ships and
> >rush the MS in to win the game.
> I am still not sure if this would work, if an MS is disabled, it seems that
> most attackes will slug it again and kill it, there aren't any recovers

Well, repairing MS would only be meaningful if MS have hitpoints and can
be partially damaged (to keep things simple, partially damaged MS doesn't
have impaired stats, they just running a greater risk of being
destroyed.) Hmm, maybe this is not such a hot idea...

> Given the fragility of ships in the TV show, we simply gave them basic
> stats, average manuver and defenses, we also gave them range three weapons.

Yeah that's a major problem for me too, but then both sides keep making
ships and bring them to battle, so I kinda wanted to bring ships in to
the game. That's why I suggested the repair rule, but honestly I am not
so sure myself repair rule is such a good idea.

One thing we can do is make it harder for MS's to sink ships, so we can
have stats like:

The attributes are Hit Points (HP), Movement points (MP), range (R),
attack accuracy (AC) (how likely a shoot will hit), attack power (PO) (how
many HP a hit is worth), defence value (D) (how likely it can avoid a hit)

For example,
         MP R AC PO D HP
Ship 1 - - - 1 100
  Main - 7 3 20 - -
  AA - 2 2 3 - -
Ball 4 2 4 4 9 1
Gelgoog 5 1 5 14 5 10
Zaku 4 1 4 3 4 4
Gundam 6 1 8 16 6 20

The ship's main gun is only useful against ships and installations, and
ship's AA gun is only useful against MS (this pretty much reflect scenes
from Zeta). So Ships are easy to hit, but can take a lot of damage, Balls
are very hard to hit, but will be destroyed by any hit (basically a TIE
fighter). Also a single MS attacking a ship is hopeless. A team of MS's
can sink a ship but will lose part of the team. The high PO for Gundam
and Gelgoog comes from the fact that beam weapons are supposed to be
similar to ship guns.

Of course these numbers don't mean much now, because I haven't invented
the combat formulas yet.

> >What are you using as game pieces?
> For now, we are taking art from Gundam sites, including Mark Simmon's Gundam
> Project, printing them as 1 inch squares and using an old map.
>
> >Do you have a big group of friends playing games?
> Well, there are three or four of us who are playing.
>
> >How long on average is one of your games?
> Depends on horseplay, but individual scenarios run 20-30 min allowing for
> strategic thought.

Sounds great!

> We are also adapting a quick Warhammer system,

How does that go? Is there a brief description on the net?

> and adding Star Trek ships for alternate settings. We are currently
> testing transformables to do Zeta and Macross. The rules are so simple
> and elegant, they are truly universal, and can cover several shows
> besides Gundam.

Yep!

CHIN, Chien Ting
Dept of Medical Biophysics, Sunnybrook Health Science Centre
... o O *
Man is a bubble

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