Joaquin & Linette Torres (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:01:40 -0500
Thought you fellas might like a peek at this.
attached mail follows:
And so it goes. One of the last holdouts in the MG GUNDAM lineup is upon
us. Surprising, so hot on the heels of the MG ALEX as well as the
immensely ambitious DOM earlier this year. Surprising because the ZZ
is, like the ALEX, one of the less popular of the various iterations of
80's GUNDAM. Surprising because at one time it seemed unlikely we would
ever see it at all.
Yet here it is, in its attempt to supersede the 1986 DOUBLE-ZETA kit of
the same scale, which at Ą2200 was one of the most expensive and
complicated kits of its time. The old ZZ kit was actually pretty good,
sporting some tasteful panel-line detail, surprisingly decent
proportions, and the de-rigueur full transformation. Its main failings
were in the way the legs and arms were designed, and the
deservedly-infamous half-backpack, which due to the sheer size of the
part, was provided without any kind of inner shell, leaving this huge,
hollow piece in plain view from the front of the robot. The kit also
required glue, of which a big honkin' tube was provided. And though it
was colorfully molded for a kit of its era, it had nowhere near the
obsessive-color-coding of the typical MG kit (not that such a thing was
technically feasible yet). But still, not a bad piece at all... so how
does this enormously expensive kit (almost twice the cost of the
original) measure up?
Read on, if you must know...
This Ą4000 kit comes in a huge box, as did the three Ą4000 kits which
preceded it this year (wow). The cover painting offers the ZZ in a
suitably heroic pose, along with the rest of the Gundam Team, and though
the robot is well rendered, there is little else to make it interesting.
Still, the mere size and presence of the illustration leads one to
expect some pretty impressive things to be found inside...
Opening this box reveal parts. Lots of parts. A virtual SEA of parts.
Boy, I thought the MG ZETA had parts. This thing beats it squarely.
Unlike it's big-kit siblings GP-02A and DOM, the ZZ has very few large,
bulky pieces to it (save the enormous backpack). It is proportioned far
more like a normal GUNDAM robot. So what you get in this huge box is a
myriad of itty bitty pieces, in all the colors you would expect. No
fewer than eighteen separate trees of them, actually, not counting the
two large racks of polycaps. This thing is going to be a challenge just
to put together, I think.
The construction manual weighs a LOT. A disconcerting sign, that. On the
plus side, there are a number of beautifully drawn schematics by Katoki
inside, perhaps the best included in any MG kit so far (there is a bonus
booklet of some sort featuring the ZZ on the cover which, sadly, did not
come with my kit... I suspect it was harvested from the box before I
I start at the feet, as always. First thing I notice is that the MG ZZ
has a unique twinned set of polycaps in all manner of odd shapes...
cool. Second thing I notice is that the M23 polycap fits much too
tightly on the ankle joint it sits on, and I nearly butcher the thing
getting it off.
Several times I sand the posts on parts E22, to no real avail. The
polycap gets stuck again and torn up again as it's placed and removed
several times in a row. I decide to let it wait. E22 and E23 are
ridiculously tight fits. Same deal with the other heel unit. Sometimes I
hate snap-fit model kits.
Continuing on: the soles of the feet are another overly tight fit...
could this be a rushed tooling job? Everything else fits together okay,
thought the yellow rims of the foot boosters don't want to align
properly just yet. As I finish the foot assemblies I note that whereas
the feet of the original ZZ kit were each comprised of 6, 9 parts max
(as I recall), these new feet have roughly 23 parts apiece. APIECE! It
looks very much like the rest of the kit will be the same story. Time to
The rest of the leg is fairly complicated as well. Both the exterior
armor and the interior sections are comprised of multiple parts, many of
them moving. Good news: The kit provides four steel screws and washers
to securely bind the semicircular leg thrusters to the shin armor. Bad
news: The steel screws and washers are very tiny and incredibly hard to
handle. The screw shaft is tall, and the receptacle it fits in is
unthreaded, and you must hold two large parts together while you try to
get the two metal parts situated properly... needless to say I've never
spent so much time on the floor looking for lost parts for one kit as I
have with this one.
Note: do NOT be like your faithful reviewer and try to build this stage
of the kit over deep shag carpet. I never did find two of those washers
again. And no, the kit cannot be built without them, and no, Bandai is
not generous enough to provide 2 or 3 extra for you. So, as this is only
the test fit stage, I have made some quick replacement shims out of
scrap plastic. I had to use blue stickum on the tip of the screwdriver
to keep the screws in line. I think this particular stage gets my vote
for most difficult-to-assemble part of any mecha kit I've ever built,
Construction woes do not end there. As I am pushing the yellow thruster
insert into the rear shin armor (part E7), the pressure of my fingers
causes the top half of the thin part to almost snap clean off. After
even more cursing, I weld it quickly with super glue and vow to
reinforce both it and its twin with epoxy putty later on. The large knee
guards are designed so that their seams are hidden when assembled, but
although the fit is good with no gaps, the two sides end up looking
uneven somehow. After much difficulty, I get the lower leg assembly put
together... the layered components feel flimsy and fragile, and some of
the pegs will not fit without forcing (hot tip... fit the shin armor
parts (E5 and E6) on the rest of the parts LAST, even after the feet).
The MG ZZ is beginning to ride that fine edge between "challenging" and
Fortunately, the rest of the leg goes together without any major
hassles, save one: be VERY careful that you get the M22 polycaps
situated correctly if you don't want the upper leg blocks to be grossly
off-center. Prying apart those thighs is no fun. As far as that goes,
the upper leg assembly is not removable from the knee block once it is
assembled, as with most other MG kits. The parts do have a trench that
hides the seams in front, but the back is left blank.
Most of the thruster fairings are hollow pieces that fit over grey
louvered pegs, creating a very nice look, but the detail is molded into
all the thruster parts on the semicircular "calf" units, and as more of
a ribbed style, which does not match the others. The side and rear calf
thrusters exhibit some bad sink marks on their sides, though this is
I notice that the calf armors have tiny panels that plug into hidden
polycaps. These serve no useful purpose here, but could easily hold
additional armor parts to the leg, so I am taking this as a pretty clear
sign that a FULL-ARMOR ZZ kit is, if not inevitable, certainly a strong
The rear leg thruster (the one that helped break a part, as described
above) shows through to plain, undetailed plastic, though this could
easily be corrected. All the same, this kit is beginning to look like
something, and despite the trials so far, I actually like what I'm
On to the core fighter: actually, this kit provides parts for a fully
transformable core fighter as well as a folded-up core block, but only
the fighter is molded in full color. You can assemble the robot using
the transformed core fighter, but the fit to the upper body half is
ridiculously tight (prepare for scratched-off paint if you insist on
doing this). The core block is molded in white, with the fighter's nose
in red, and indeed lacks much detail at all. However, it fits into the
robot halves much more cleanly and looks better than the folded-up
fighter, and the tiny pilot figure is properly situated in an upright
position. Besides, when it's inserted into the upper body, you can't
tell that the blue and yellow bits are missing.
The waist area is fairly typical except for the number of parts and the
oddball rear plug for the backpack support boom. The front of the
"fanducci" has a removable hatch on it which does not quite fit flush.
The front skirt armors are, once again, disappointingly hollow and thin,
though it could be argued that it doesn't matter from a visual
standpoint (note: *I* know it's not right, though). Interestingly, the
two raised blocks on the front skirts are molded as separate pieces that
plug into the rest of the part. In the designs for the FULL-ARMOR ZZ,
these parts are much longer. Hmmmmm....
The construction of the arms is almost basic compared to the legs, but
they have quirks as well. The upper elbow joint blocks have nicely
molded detail, but they are still those damnable soft polycaps instead
of the semi-soft found in the arm joints of the HG RX-78, and indeed
elsewhere on this very kit, and as one of my many blunders during the
construction of this kit, I get one on its (again, hideously
tight-fitting) peg backwards, and absolutely rip the sh*t out of it
pulling it off and resituating it. Same with the arm hatch that flips
open to allow the hand/booster module to rotate. It consists of a weird
asymmetrical polycap slid through a fairly flimsy loop hinge, and when I
get THIS polycap in wrong too, I very nearly wind up with another broken
(note to anyone: I am not in the habit of paying very close attention to
the construction manuals for these kits. As I have built so many of them
over the years, I often will just glance at them to pick up a part
number or to study a particularly tricky assembly. The MG ZZ is a kit
that absolutely DEMANDS careful scrutiny of the assembly instructions. I
made more mistakes while snapping this kit together than I have made on
my last 15 kits easily. Don't be the fool I was, because it wastes a lot
of time, it is hell on the fingers and the model, and frankly it's just
a big fat pain in the ass. Thank you)
The rest of the arms go together fine. The ZZ's trademark folding
shields are nice, thick one-piece moldings with lots of scribed detail
and clean-fitting plugs for their leading edges. The only hands provided
are the articulated "thumb-index-bottom 3" variety and are well-molded
and good-looking except when they are closed up as fists. The upper arms
have difficult-to-remove plugs that can be replaced by landing gear in
the kit's MA mode. The elbow joints swivel, as do the shoulder joints,
providing some nice (almost excessive) mobility.
The large shoulder armors have fairly detailed inserts that provide
tracks for the somewhat involved shoulder-hinging system, but this
detail is just barely visible on the complete model. The shoulder armors
also "capture" the shoulder blocks when they are assembled, and no
attempt is made to disguise or prettify the parting seams, as on many
recent kits. This promises to make painting of the shoulder parts tricky
at best... a common enough problem on older kits, but not a welcome
sight on one that is supposedly state-of-the-art.
The huge blue thruster "decks" are a grave disappointment. Though it is
molded in two parts for the proper, filled-in appearance, the molding on
the large upper half is dreadful. Enormous seam lines scar the front and
rear edges of the parts. The round raised details which necessitated
this kind of molding in the first place are rough and don't line up
properly, and in one spot the molds actually appear to be damaged.
Additionally, the upper surfaces are plagued with fairly severe sink
marks, and are as featureless a plain of plastic as you are ever likely
to see. All this is fixable easily enough, but yikes, does it look bad.
The upper body, as with the original 1/100 ZZ kit and the 1/144 HG
version, is saddled with some pretty unwieldy transformation gear. The
chest part on my example keeps popping off of its pegs, though it is not
too hard to put back on. Similarly, the cockpit hatch assembly tends to
fall off if you so much look at it crosswise. The vented boxes which sit
on each side of the head hide fairly flimsy double-jointed hinges, and
do not fit well. The polycaps which hold the arms to the body swivel
back a little bit, which is a nice touch, but the joints are undetailed
and look rather insubstantial. I soon discover that the "hood" which
sits behind the head is the only really safe thing to pick this model up
The backpack... Boy, what a mixed bag. Construction is fairly involved,
as almost everything moves (including the booster rockets), and the
finished unit is a clear improvement over the old kit's hollow shell.
But my god... the fit of the front and rear halves is AWFUL. I don't
just mean poor, or bad, I mean totally unacceptably awful. On the
outboard sides, the inner half sits out of line by almost a millimeter
in places. The inner area between the missile pods is not as bad, but
fit is still pretty crummy, with misaligned surfaces and big gaps, and
as a whole it just looks like shit, with enormous long sink marks up and
down the side of the backpack shell not helping matters any (I suppose
it is possible I did something wrong here... poor fitting of one of the
many internal assemblies, perhaps... but if that is not the case, these
flaws are going to be a class-A nightmare to fix, and it also leaves
Bandai looking pretty bad for releasing this super-expensive kit with
such inexcusably shoddy moldings. I will update this review if the
The backpack actually has some great detail (see below), and the opening
missile pods are a nice touch. One of the pod doors on my example
refuses to close all the way though. The huge beam sabers have simple
rotating pegs which help the robot to grip them (and which look awful,
though that is a matter of opinion), and sit in nicely repositionable
mounts. Also included are two huge transparent pink beam blades, which
are the size of a kindergartener's paintbrush, with weirdly blunt tips.
Curiously, this parts tree says "1998" on it... are these from the PG
GUNDAM kit? Hmmmm...
The backpack requires no fewer than three plugs to get it to sit
properly on the body, and while two of them are snug fits, the one that
keeps the backpack from rotating backwards (and taking the rest of the
model with it) keeps popping out. It takes a steady hand and a small
screwdriver to get it back on, but it never seems to stay. And of
course, the part in question is a !!@#$% soft polycap, so it is getting
slowly ripped up by the screwdriver... aAaRgh...
.... you know, this model is now officially a pain in my ass, I think. I
am growing tired of its many and sundry parts and its many and sundry
flaws. I want this to be over. Now. This isn't fun anymore....
Fortunately, all that is left to do are the double-beam rifle and the
head. The rifle's construction is neither better or worse than the
original's, and the head goes together fine, though it does not seem to
sit on the neck post very well. As is the norm, the V-crest together
with the hyper-megacannon are provided both as full-color multi-part
assemblies and a one-part molding (in white plastic, oddly enough). The
V-blades are molded in a slightly less soft plastic than usual, and it
may be possible to shape and sand them.
After some difficulty getting the robot to hold the gun, I pull the hand
off, fit it onto the pegged grip of the rifle, and place it back on the
arm. The backpack decides to celebrate by falling apart again. As I am
replacing that, the heavy rifle falls out of the hand. And again. And
again. And again. Finally, I get everything to tenuously hold together.
I push it into a basic standing pose and set it aside. Construction
complete, THANK GOD.
Total time spent putting this beast together, not counting time spent
searching for lost parts or prying apart botched assemblies: 12 hours.
I'm reminded of a quote to the effect of "I can't even do something I
LIKE for 12 hours straight"
-DETAIL & LIKENESS-
Okay, in an effort to put that bit of unpleasantness behind us: this is
an EXCELLENT interpretation of the DOUBLE-ZETA. The proportional
pitfalls that plagued previous renditions of this MS (including many
garage kits) have been neatly sidestepped here. It looks just about
perfect, given that it is barely changed from the original 1986 design.
The feet, never done well in any previous Bandai kit, look terrific
here, and the rotating foot-thrusters with their pretty grey inserts are
a hoot. The soles of the feet are almost featureless, which is not a big
deal as far as I am concerned, since they are visible neither when the
MS is standing or in its transformed MA mode.
One previous drawback of previous ZZ kits and toys has been that the way
the calf armor slides down the leg in the transformation process has
prevented them from incorporating properly flared leg armor. This has
resulted in both poor appearance and poor mobility for the feet in ZZ's
of the past. The MG ZZ solves this problem beautifully, with simple but
elegant hinged armor that flares out nicely in MS mode, and folds down
flat for transformation. It looks great, and affords the model a good
solidly planted stance.
As noted before, most of the sub-thruster units have dark grey inserts
(plugs, actually) that greatly improve the looks of the unpainted model,
and should simplify painting of these parts. Even the ones that lack the
inserts are okay-looking. One exception however: the inboard "vents" of
the calf armors are molded as plain blue inserts with a very shallow
raised frame and no detail whatsoever. They doesn't even look like
openings. Fortunately these parts are not very prominent, but they could
easily have been better executed. The large vents on the shoulder armors
also look slightly unrealistic, though given basic molding limitations
this might have been unavoidable. Fortunately, there are relatively few
tough-fix detail compromises of this sort to be found on this model.
In fact, for a transforming kit, the MG ZZ has very few design
compromises at all, at least visually. Unlike the crippled MG ZETA, it
looks just the way it ought to, with the only real visual flaw being
that you can see just a little too easily inside the legs around the
knee area, and the rather obvious hollow spaces cry out for detail that
is not provided.
Oh, but there is the small matter of the gun. I don't know about you,
but I have always hated the ZZ's beam rifle. Not just the design itself,
which I find inartistic and boring, but when the ZZ in question is one
that transforms, this gun has to be inflated to ridiculous proportions
to serve its function in the MA mode, and it invariably looks bloated,
toylike, and awful (the original 1/144 ZZ kit was deeply flawed, but at
least its beam rifle was scaled to a reasonable size and was designed
with looks taking priority over transformational functionality).
Things are no different here... the gun is huge and heavy and looks
awful. the robot can barely hold it, much less pose realistically with
it. The pose shown on the box illustration (with the rifle stock tucked
under the robot's "armpit") is not even possible on the kit itself.
Though the interior of the gun has some marvelous detail (again, barely
visible when the kit is complete), the upper surfaces are plain and
dull. The slot into which the gunsight folds would have been a great
place to slip a detail panel, but all you get is a plain, gapped seam
line. The front end of the rifle stock is painfully ugly, absolute zero
improvement over previous versions. And though some attempt is made to
detail the gun barrels, the engravings are weak and mushy. I am SO
tempted to take the rifle stock from my 1/144 HG ZZ, lengthen it a bit,
and slap these barrels onto it, I hate this gun so much. At least it
comes with a clear canopy for the cockpit and a plug-in figure just
barely detailed enough to be recognizable as a pilot. Phooey.
The head is the only obviously updated element of the MG ZZ's overall
design. It is considerably refined from the original kit's, and looks
quite good. The hy-megacannon on the forehead is huge, and looks really
cool. In photographs, the engraved lines radiating from the cannon
muzzle didn't look too good to me, but in the flesh the cannon outlet is
deep, with a nice raised lip around the edge, and it looks fine. The
design of the one-part crest/cannon differs slightly, and is not as
nice. Also, the vanes of the crest, particularly the small one, are
ungainly and thick. For once I'd go with the soft-plastic ones (which,
as noted, are not that soft on this kit). The full-color ones also pivot
downward to allow for transformation to MA mode.
Problems with the backpack have already been outlined, but I have to
say, they did put some NICE detail in it, particularly the underside.
Where it is once again mostly hidden from view. And this happens time
and time again on this model. Parts with some of the best detail you've
ever seen on a GUNDAM kit will be almost totally hidden away when the
kit is finished. Even the beam saber mounts are cleverly detailed, and
they can't be seen at all. Meanwhile, highly visible areas that could
have benefited from this sort of thing, like the "collar" insert or the
interior of the aforementioned "hood", are left wanting, Also, this kit
sports far less visible panel-line detail than even the original, and in
my opinion it could sorely use some. The one exception would be the
split-shield units, which have detail to spare and almost look like they
came from another kit entirely.
Two exceptions: The core-fighter fuselage and tail are also covered with
plenty of engraved panel lines. The core-fighter proportions are
much-improved over those of previous kits, but the plain-jane inner
frame and half-hearted sculpting of the channel between the upper and
lower engine pods give it a toylike appearance. This is not helped by a
pilot figure which is reasonably well detailed as seen from the side,
but clearly a simple, blocky molding when seen from a top view (which,
when said figure is ensconced in the cockpit, is all you can see)
Surprisingly, the core fighter's landing gear parts are fairly passable
(ignoring the ridiculously thick "gear doors"), as are the many
landing-gear parts provided for the kit as a whole.
The core-block unit is fairly undetailed and is unsuitable for any kind
of stand-alone display, but as noted above it is far more appropriate
for use in the MS mode than the fighter is. Sadly, the two fuselage
halves lack any kind of demarcation line between the upper and lower
engine pods, presenting it as an inaccurately solid unit. Another
relatively easy fix, but why? Something tells me another month in
development might have done wonders for this kit.
Still, there is no denying the finished kit has presence. It is HUGE,
easily towering over previous MG kits, and it's one heavy sucker when
picked up. which I recommend one does carefully, as the myriad joints on
this kit make it pretty un-sturdy, to say the least.
Confession time: while I appreciate a kit that can be dynamically posed,
it is very rare that I position mine in anything other than a basic
at-attention stance. As it was so difficult to wrestle the MG ZZ into
even that simple posture, I was rather dreading testing this particular
aspect of the kit. However, the good news is, this kit is capable of
some great, kinetic and fairly extreme poses. the ankle joints have
outstanding flexibility, with enough lateral swing to keep the feet
firmly planted even in some fairly wide-legged poses. The upper legs
utilize a swiveling hip block a la the MG Mk. II, allowing for virtually
unlimited rotation of the legs. The flex range of the elbows is
excellent, given the bulk of the arms. And the head, unlike some MG
kits, can move around quite freely. For such an ungainly-looking hulk,
this ZZ actually gives the appearance of being pretty light on its toes.
Bad news time: We all know that firm joints are preferable to loose
ones, but the vast majority of the MG ZZ's joints are so friggin' tight
it's ridiculous. This makes the kit hard to pose in general (try bending
the knees for a quick dose of frustration), and really, really hard to
pose in the tiny increments that help give the proper balance and
feeling of weight to a mecha model. Add to this the fact that almost
everything on this kit has some kind of joint or another, and that some
of them ARE very loose (most notably and regrettably, the feet... not a
good thing on a heavy model like this), and you get a kit that is very
hard to pose, as something is always being accidentally moved or knocked
off. It can be done, barely, but it is a painstaking and frustrating
process, and it is pretty hard to get things placed exactly where you
The torso does not move at all, which is kind of a given considering
that there's a very wide, flat core block in there. More worrisome is
the way the shoulders flap about on their flimsy little polycap hinges.
I think a shoulder reinforcement of some kind is definitely going to be
in order at some point.
Also, that DAMN backpack will not stop cutting loose. This is easily
becoming the most-hated feature of the kit for me. I am going to look
into putting some kind of catch on the peg that keeps slipping out. Or,
I may just glue everything down and sod the transformation entirely.
Which is looking very tempting right now...
I did this for you, kids. Normally, I hate transforming model kits. They
usually look like shit, and are invariably flimsy and hard to handle.
While the MG ZZ has successfully avoided the serious uglies that being
transformable usually bollocks up a kit with, it fails miserably in the
structural-integrity department in MS mode. So how does it hold up on
Well, not real well, unsurprisingly. The leg-sliding feature does not
work very well. The legs have to be pushed through the calf armors with
a scarifying mount of force, and it seems like parts could very well be
cracked or broken this way. At first I thought this was due to the
emergency shims I made to replace the lost washers, but the other leg,
with the proper washers, fared no better. The backpack has pegs that fit
into the legs to situate them properly, but I could not get the legs
positioned under them quite right. Perhaps some graphite or grease in
the slide grooves will remedy this problem, but I have none handy with
which to test this.
The arms are dependent on the strength of their joints alone to hold
them in place, and do this reasonably well, though the split-shield
attachment blocks are very prone to falling off. Loads of parts fall off
while I am transforming this kit, and while that would not be a problem
if the kit were glued together properly, it still irks. The doors on the
front of the beam rifle are incredibly stiff, and it strains the fragile
hinges to open them. The head, supposedly designed to remain in place
during transformation, catches the edge of the chest piece as it is
swung into place. In fact, the head is so very much in the way I end up
The MA mode itself looks surprisingly good, and about as coherent as it
possibly could, given that the design is still fairly ridiculous, and
about as aerodynamic as a brick house. Katoki did a very good job on
this aspect of the kit, as far as he could anyway. The various elements,
unlike the far more tightly packed MG ZETA "Wave-Rider", all want to go
in different directions, and it would likely take a fair amount of work
to get everything lined up properly. I myself cannot say, for as I am
attempting to do this, the beam-rifle assembly falls off the kit, and
thoroughly disgusted, I actually put the kit back into its box, where I
daresay it is likely to remain for some time.
-THE BOTTOM LINE-
I canąt help but be disappointed by this kit. Yes, it features a great
likeness of the ZZ... but I canąt say the the ZZ was exactly beautiful
to start with. At best, it is a fairly ungainly mech with far too many
weird aerodynamic add-ons. It is definitely one of my least favorite
Gundam designs. I bought this kit because it promised to be big and
colorful (which it is), and because I wanted to see how Bandai would
pull off a subject of this complexity. Well, be careful what you wish
for, and I think Iąve pretty thoroughly detailed the results. While
visually it makes an impressive addition to the 1/100 GUNDAM lineup,
there are far too many shortcomings in its assembly and construction to
be ignored. If you are not a big fan of the ZZ and not an expert modeler
(and if you do not possess a fairly cool temper), I canąt recommend this
kit. Get the 1/144 HG instead. That kit, while less impressive visually,
is at least far less likely to have you tearing your hair out in
frustration. I can only hope the MG S-GUNDAM, if there ever is one,
manages to avoid the myriad flaws of the MG ZZ. Itąs an ambitious
failure, but a failure nonetheless, in my view.
MG ZZ GUNDAM Final Tally:
PROS: Looks great: spectacular design job by Katoki: big, colorful, and
impressive: surprisingly flexible: MA mode looks pretty good: advanced
modelers may appreciate the considerable challenge.
CONS: Insanely complicated: some assembly difficult even for advanced
modelers: most joints far too stiff: backpack mount keeps coming loose:
unforgivably bad fit on backpack halves: ugly, unwieldy gun: Far too
much effort required to transform legs: too many parts tend to fall off:
most of the cool detail is hidden: metal parts are tiny and easily lost,
no spares are provided.
-- "I predict that handguns will be the American Express of the 21st century"
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.0b3 on Fri Jan 14 2000 - 03:08:44 JST