-Z- (Z@Gundam.Com)
Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:24:58 -0800

>X-Originating-IP: []
>From: "M Ip" <zugok@hotmail.com>
>To: z@gundam.com
>Cc: zugok@gundam.com
>Subject: unicode and stuff
>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 17:28:08 NZDT
>First happy new year to you and the list. Second, it has only come to my
>mind why you didn't snap up >mind why you didn't snap up -z-@gundam.com. Thirdly, I am sending this via
>hotmail because I am too lazy to boot my primary computer where my email
>archives reside. If you wish to reply, please send to zugok@gundam.com,

I snapped up Z@Gundam.Com, which is good enough. "-Z-" would've probably
been problematic, as "-" is a switch character in UNIX, the way "/" is in
DOS. In any case, -Z- is just an ASCII representation on what I'd like to
do as a single character, a Z with a horizontal bar through it....

>Now back on topic, and feel free to forward to the GML. I saw your post on
>the 'Unicodification' for 'Gundam: High Frontier'. I have been able to code
>in Unicode HTML for quite some time now.
> It's been darn easy really, I type something out in JWP (Japanese Word
>Processor), copy and paste it into MS Word, and save as HTML (for sissy HTML
>builders). Simple as that. The other was is to write HTML code from
>scratch in JWPce, a more evolved program from JWP which allows files to be
>saved in unicode. Notepad in NT also allows you to save in Unicode as well,
>so I could copy stuff in JWP, paste it into Notepad and get the same results
>as building a page from JWPce. Depending on how NT is set up, you can even
>view the Japanese kana in Notepad.
> I don't know how you do it, but it's seems like you're searching tables
>for the correct character, and that sounds painful.

Maybe it's because I started writing HTML with nothing more than Notepad,
but I generally hand-code my Web pages. One of these days, I'll break down
and try the Japanese Input Method Editor (IME) or some other front end.

It might be different if I were posting large blocks of Japanese or other
non-European characters, but since I'm just doing the Gundam title block,
the Turn A symbol and a few words in Cyrillic, it's just as easy to look it
up as I go.

>You wrote:
>>It started with that "Turn A" character, which can be easily encoded
>>in UTF-8 as &#8704 and browsed correctly with Internet Explorer 3.0
>>or higher, although the much-vaunted Netscape still barfs on it on
>>most platforms.
>Well that Turn-A issue, that just appears in the Japanese text tables, never
>mind why accented e's and other European characters do not appear. As for
>Internet Epxloder and Nutscrape, IE is definitely more superior. I switched
>to IE4 because it handled Japanese text right the first time I requested it
>to do it. Ever since Nutscrape intorduced various encodings from NS3(?) it
>barely ever worked even if I gave it the correct fonts to use. IE is also
>more HTML compliant that NS, even the anti-MS linux heads at slashdot.org
>admit that.
>Chien Ting Chin wrote:
>>NJWin is a good product because it's an extension to the OS, not a
>>browser plug-in (meaning it works (to some extent) on Notepad, MS
>>Office etc).
>NJWin is one of the most horrble little programs I have had the misfortune
>to use on NT. Crash crash crash. The 32 bit version is one sloppy piece of
>programming. More over, it's a third party program, why have more overhead
>on your OS when you can use the encoding functions on the browser. If you
>want to view Japanese kana in Notepad, I suggest using NT.

It should also be noted here that the Notepad in NT is not the same Notepad
as in Windows 3.x or 9x. It doesn't have the 32K file size limit for which
the original Notepad is notorious and sports an excellent search and
replace feature that the other is sadly lacking. Had Windows 9x shipped
with the Notepad found in NT, I wouldn't've turned to Helios Software
Solutions' TextPad.

>>Unless MS supports Unicode in some future OS (Win2k? Win2k+1?)
>NT4 supports Unicode. I've been running NT and there are quite a few nifty
>advantages in using NT over 9x. NT allows Japanese regional settings (which
>I have yet to find if 9x will let yu do, I don't think so), and just
>resently I have figured how to get the title and menu bars to display in
>Japanese. Normally, NT wouldn't do that, and Win9x required third party
>programs to achive this. Heck I have even run an IIS4 Server to return asp
>pages from an MS Access file back in to Japanaese. Strangely, about the
>only thin I haven't been able to do in NT is to directly enter Japanese kana
>without the aid of a third party program.
>>Recently I read that S-JIS is a MS bastardization of JIS, and is
>>loathed by Japanese scholars. But it's overrunning the older
>>more robust encoding because of Win9x/J, is that true?
>I'm sure Shift-JIS has been around since the DOS days. But then there have
>been so many versions of JIS (New, NEC, Shift) and then there's Enchanced
>Unix Code (EUC), it's hard to remember. If I remember, the diffrences
>between the different JIS standards are subtle. It has something to do with
>the (binary) bit before a kanji character. That's just for x86 and Unix.
>Before the internet explosion, I think Macs ruled all over Japan, and I have
>no idea what encoding they used
>Shift JIS seems to be the standard on the web for Japanese text, (when EUC
>really should be). I used to code in EUC, but for some reason I switched to
>Shift-JIS, and I can't remember why. Perhaps I should I shoudl start to
>have an unicode option for my pages, and I'll finally stop procrasting
>finally fix my 'Mon étoil' lyrics page

Posted, with comment, per Michael Ip's implied request.


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