Jim Huang (tyhuang@OCF.Berkeley.EDU)
Mon, 27 Dec 1999 22:30:12 -0800
rOn 27 Dec 99, at 9:13, Roland Thigpen wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:52:11 -0800 Jim Huang
> <tyhuang@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote: >On 26 Dec 99, at 19:41, Roland
> Thigpen wrote: > *snip* > >Than what was the battle of Rum in the OYW?
> Don't you know that's >supposely for Jion to get another colony to
> conduct another colony >drop on Jaburo? >
> It is a fine distinction I know, but even in this case, Char is not
> making war on civilian populations exclusively. You might argue that
> Earth's population in CCA was a viable military target based on my
> arguement, but I disagree as the areas targeted were overwhelmingly
> civilian in nature. Char never gave the orders for the original colony
Well, we know for a fact that there are many federation military
installation on North America, the project impact point in CCA novel.
> Personally, I've always found the idea of a colony drop ridiculous and
> too much of an overkill. They could have taken out Jaburo with mobile
> suits and fighters. That is what happened in ZZ isn't it?
In fact, If you watched First Gundam, you will know that Jion, partly
lead by Char, tried to invade and destory the MS factory in Jaburo,
and failed. So it's not an overkill to take Jaburo with colony drop.
You can find out about the final fall of Jaburo in Zeta gundam,
> >That's why Federation was formed to move ALL of humanity to
> >space. Not so the elites can monoploize it.
> Well, things can change. It is not neccessarily for the better or even
> right, but sometimes people make these decisions. Granted those in
> power that were left on Earth after they forced most others away did
> use their power to remain there, and this is an abuse of power. But
> that is a chance you take when you allow anyone to take power. Gaia
> Gear, from what I understand, tells of the abuses of power by the
> newtype elite after they take control.
Your understanding is wrong. I will explain more latter.
> >Since the removal of all humanity from Earth was the vision created
> >by the Federation, and still being enforced by Federation in a
> >perverted way, Char was hardly imposing his vision on the Earth
> >Federation elites.
> Oh, yes he was. The end results might have been the same, but the
> reasons behind their actions were completely different. And people
> must be judged on their reasons and actions, not what their actions
> might bring about. Hitler too wanted to create a perfect, peaceful
Well, some mentioned the world social contract earlier in this trend.
The spacenoid had hold up their end of the bargin by moving away
from Earth. And Earthnoids failed their end of the deal. Any
enforcement action to demand redress, however drastic, can hardly
be called imposing one's view on other. That's my point.
> Besides, I've never heard of the Federation being formed to remove
> everyone from Earth. I've always viewed the colonization of space as a
> method to releave Earth's overpopulation problems, not remove everyone
> from Earth.
There are a lot more you don't know, too. That's an simplification,
and more details can be found if you hunt through GML archive to
find my synopsis of "Senkou no Hathaway".
> >Well, Char, with all his newtype power, is certainly not all knowing.
> > But we are endowed with the hindsight of Hathaway novels, F91, V
> >Gundam, and Gaia Gear to see the consquence of Char's failure. And
> >with this 20/20 hindsight, I can say those other options, especially
> >"just give federation more time", made Char's solution very apealing
> >to me.
> Hindsight is always 20/20, but we can't realistically judge Char's
> actions based on hindsight. If you want to judge things on hindsight,
> well Hitler's Nazi Germany was one of the most efficient systems of
> government, one that brought a defeated nation from its knees to being
> a world power in less than 10 years. Does that make it right? No,
> because it was built on the bones of a murdered and enslaved people.
> Char might make a better tomorrow, but you can't just think of then,
> but also how you are going to hurt people today.
I am merely pointing out that from UC 0093 on, people are hurting
because Char failed. To say give federation time and things will
change(as some had suggested earlier) for the better won't work,
because we already know what happened in the next 100 years.
> Granted, all I've seen of those you've listed is F91, but I've read
> synopsis of the other three. And as I've heard somewhat about what
> Gaia Gear is about, in hindsight, how can you agree with allowing
> Newtypes to come to power, as their excesses and abuses of power are
> as bad, if not worse than the Federation's elite? If you are going to
> use hindsight, use it on everything, not just one narrow field of
Well, I would be interested to read your version of the synoposis.
Because it's different from what I have. And I have almost the entire
run of Gaia Gear serialization on Newtype magazine.
Yes, there is a plan in Gaia Gear to move the Spacenoid elite to
Earth. But that's not the plan of Newtype or even the spacenoids
elites. It's the plan by Manhunter(MHA/MaHa), the federation
agency that's in charge of watching over the population on Earth.
> >Acturally, if you read that quote again. It was Mirai, who was in
> >very real personal danger, said "Char is too pure." That's not
> >necessary Char's self-preception.
> I believe Char also said he took his actions for pure reasons. Thus,
> it is also his self-perceptions.
Show me where you find your quote. I am beginning to get wary of
this. Go back to the movie, listen to the conversation between him
and Nanai, and how he views his actions. Especailly his quote,
"Some one have to bear the sin of humanity."(i.e. him)
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