Roland Thigpen (jenius@unspacy.org)
Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:13:09 -0500


On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:52:11 -0800 Jim Huang <tyhuang@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>On 26 Dec 99, at 19:41, Roland Thigpen wrote:
>
*snip*
>
>Than what was the battle of Rum in the OYW? Don't you know that's
>supposely for Jion to get another colony to conduct another colony
>drop on Jaburo?
>

Here, as far as I know, Char fought only soldiers. The colonies were evacuated before they were dropped, and the target was Jabaro, not any civilian area. Sure, the fallout (not neccessarily nuclear) would affect nearby civilian areas (and when we are talking a colony drop, nearby is relative), but they are casualities of war. The reason I've heard the first colony hit Sydney was because military action around it altered its trajectory, and there was not enough time to change it.

It is a fine distinction I know, but even in this case, Char is not making war on civilian populations exclusively. You might argue that Earth's population in CCA was a viable military target based on my arguement, but I disagree as the areas targeted were overwhelmingly civilian in nature. Char never gave the orders for the original colony drops, and might not have if it was in his power to do so. But in CCA, it is in his authority to order them and he does so. I also condemn the Zabis that ordered the original colony drops and the people who actively carried out the process. If you give me valid info saying that Char also was one who actively dropped the colony rather than simply defending his fellow troops, then I gladly admit that he was a bastard even back then, and my perceptions of him were completely wrong.

Personally, I've always found the idea of a colony drop ridiculous and too much of an overkill. They could have taken out Jaburo with mobile suits and fighters. That is what happened in ZZ isn't it?

>
>That's why Federation was formed to move ALL of humanity to
>space. Not so the elites can monoploize it.
>

Well, things can change. It is not neccessarily for the better or even right, but sometimes people make these decisions. Granted those in power that were left on Earth after they forced most others away did use their power to remain there, and this is an abuse of power. But that is a chance you take when you allow anyone to take power. Gaia Gear, from what I understand, tells of the abuses of power by the newtype elite after they take control.

>
>Since the removal of all humanity from Earth was the vision created
>by the Federation, and still being enforced by Federation in a
>perverted way, Char was hardly imposing his vision on the Earth
>Federation elites.
>

Oh, yes he was. The end results might have been the same, but the reasons behind their actions were completely different. And people must be judged on their reasons and actions, not what their actions might bring about. Hitler too wanted to create a perfect, peaceful world. In hindsight, does this mean we should not have gone to war with him and let him slaughter millions of people? If you support Char's actions in CCA, you say yes. The elite of Earth can be likened to the Jews of the '40s, in the Jion's and most especially Char's views of them.

Besides, I've never heard of the Federation being formed to remove everyone from Earth. I've always viewed the colonization of space as a method to releave Earth's overpopulation problems, not remove everyone from Earth.

>Justice delayed is justice denied.
>

And how is the death of several million people who are only on Earth because they are family members of the "Elite" justice? I'm sorry, but when you talk about the deliberate annihilation of several million people whose only crime is that they love someone who might be viewed as a member of the elite, it is not justice, it is coldblooded murder!

>
>Well, Char, with all his newtype power, is certainly not all knowing.
>But we are endowed with the hindsight of Hathaway novels, F91, V
>Gundam, and Gaia Gear to see the consquence of Char's failure.
>And with this 20/20 hindsight, I can say those other options,
>especially "just give federation more time", made Char's solution
>very apealing to me.
>

Hindsight is always 20/20, but we can't realistically judge Char's actions based on hindsight. If you want to judge things on hindsight, well Hitler's Nazi Germany was one of the most efficient systems of government, one that brought a defeated nation from its knees to being a world power in less than 10 years. Does that make it right? No, because it was built on the bones of a murdered and enslaved people. Char might make a better tomorrow, but you can't just think of then, but also how you are going to hurt people today.

Granted, all I've seen of those you've listed is F91, but I've read synopsis of the other three. And as I've heard somewhat about what Gaia Gear is about, in hindsight, how can you agree with allowing Newtypes to come to power, as their excesses and abuses of power are as bad, if not worse than the Federation's elite? If you are going to use hindsight, use it on everything, not just one narrow field of view.

>
>Acturally, if you read that quote again. It was Mirai, who was in very
>real personal danger, said "Char is too pure." That's not necessary
>Char's self-preception.
>
>
>Jim Huang
>

I believe Char also said he took his actions for pure reasons. Thus, it is also his self-perceptions.

Roland

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