Eiji Hayashi (mirage_left4@hotmail.com)
Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:14:26 GMT


>From: Mark Simmons <scorpio@best.com>

> <shrug> It's a simple and consistent rule.

simple yes.. but I don't agree its consistent. It certainly omits units
which should be consider Gundams and includes units which I don't consider
Gundams.

> Which issue are you referring to? "Around the Z Plus World" was a
>multi-parter, and none of the installments I have mention how many were
>produced. The only comments I've seen regarding its production are in the
>big Gundam Wars book, which as I already said indicates that several were
>produced in multiple batches.

it was the last part. Part 5 I believe, which I read.

> >The Z is psychomu test prototypes, it is not indicative of what the Zaku
>II
> >should be, but is rather, an experiment with the clear purpose to produce
> >OTHER MS or MA.
>
> Exactly. And since there are officially dozens of Z Pluses in
>circulation already, any unique prototypes in the family (like the A3)
>could easily be mockups for future mobile suits (in this case, the D
>type). This doesn't mean that the _base_ machine isn't a mass-produced
>model.

err no. The MS-06Z is clearly not what a Zaku II should be, but just a frame
used to develop psychomu technology, as I said they could have just as
easily used a ball's frame. The Zeta Plus D to the Zeta Gundam is clearly
not analogus to the MS-06Z to the MS-06F. For all its improvements its still
a Zeta Gundam, just a better Zeta Gundam.

> Not quite. The R-2's genealogy is much more complicated - see the MS
>Classics features on my site for the gory details. It's actually of the
>same type as the MSZ-007 and Re-GZ - a trial unit of a canceled
>mass-production mobile suit.

according to the bibles, the R2 is simply the personalized model of the R1A,
which is, according to the bibles, a mass production MS. If there are any
more changes it wasn't covered in it. Besides, we're not talking about
personal customization here, the MSZ-006D isn't some pilot's personal souped
up toy.

> >I think a much better classification method would be to look at the model
> >number. At the most basic, any MS which has the same basic model series
>as a
> >prototype Gundam, should be considered a Gundam. Just look at all the
>RX-78.
>
> That's an interesting method. It's certainly a bit more scientific than
>"I know it when I see it." :-)

and you must admit Mark, that going by the model number method is fairly
irrefutable. It may omit many units which may be considered Gundams, like
maybe the AGX-04 Gebera Tetra (since it doesn't use the RX-78 model number),
but at the very least all MS that it does cover should logically be consider
Gundams. This would cover all the RX-78 series, including NT1, GP series,
-1,-2,-3. The only other model classification which can be fairly safe to
include which has, as far as I know, no exceptions, is the FA series. All FA
models with the same base model number as their prototype Gundam
counterpart, eg: FA-78, FA-93, etc.. are obviously Gundams since FA is just
just the Full Armor version of the prototypes.

> >One may even go as far as
> >consider every MS with the MSZ prefix to be Gundams.
>
> I dunno about that. The purpose of Anaheim's Project Z wasn't to
>produce Gundams per se. And Anaheim produced Gundams outside of Project Z
>(e.g. the Gundam Mark III, Superior Gundam, Epsy Gundam...).

The Mark IIIs using the RX perfix may not apply with my system, but they
would apply using your system (since they have the word "Gundam" in it. The
one listed in the Bibles has the MSF prefix, not MSZ. I have no idea what
the F in it stands for, maybe Federal Force. All the other MSZ machines are
legitimate contenders for Gundams. I'm not saying I consider them Gundams,
but under your system most of them would. The MSZ-007 mass production Zeta
Gundam, MSZ-008 Zeta II (which BTW.. under your system wouldn't be
considered a Gundam since it doesn't have the word "Gundam" in its name
^_^), MSZ-010 ZZ Gundam, MSZ-006X1-3 prototype Zeta Gundam, and ofcourse the
MSZ-006 series Zeta Plus which you don't consider Gundams.

> >BTW Mark.. as for your objection of the FAZZ being a Gundam because there
> >isn't the word "Gundam" in it. I quote Entertainment Bible...
> >"FAZZ is the abbreviation for Full Armor ZZ GUNDAM".
>
> Sure, just like Re-GZ is an abbreviation for "Refined Gundam Z."
>Neither are Gundams by my oh-so-simple definition.

so basically your definition doesn't consider a unit a Gundam even if the
word "Gundam" is abbreviated or implied in its name ^_^, it has to be out in
the open. Sorry Mark, that system seems just a bit too rigid to me in that
sense. You're telling me if Hajime Katoki wasn't such a lazy ass and
abbreviated his MS as FAZZ but spelled it out the long way as "Full Armor ZZ
Gundam", you would consider it a Gundam. The only reason why you don't
consider it a Gundam is that it was abbreviated so that the word "Gundam" is
hidden.. ooookkkaayyyy. Hajime Katoki is an engineer, and like all engineers
(I can only say this because I am one), is butt lazy, and hate typing out
full names when he can abbreviate; but because of his laziness you're going
to dump his creation in the "pseudo Gundam" category. I'm not sure he would
agree with that assessment. ^_^

I will agree with your system up to a certain point. The way I see it, all
MS with the name "Gundam" in, abbreviated, or implied in its name is
potentially a Gundam. This classification also extends to all MS with the
same basic model number or obvious modification prefixes such as FA (though
this criteria really isn't necessary because it would satisfy my first
requirement anyways). This is the most basic level, and includes pretty much
all units by your definition. Level 2, did any of these units make it into
any anime, manga, or novel. If it didn't, and is just some 3rd party
magazine designer's wet dream, then forget it, its not a Gundam in my book.
Finally, level 3, were any of these units piloted by actual named characters
or were they just second line fire suppport (a.k.a cannon fodders). If yes,
then these units are DEFINITELY Gundams. If not, they MAY still be Gundams,
but I'll judge that on a case by case basis.

To me, this definition is pretty darn fair. It eliminates the GMs, Barzams
(which some may argue is a Gundam because its a mass production Gundam Mk
II), the MSZ-007, MSZ-006 X1-3, and MSZ-008 (didn't appear in any manga or
novel that I know of), RX-166, RX-272, FA-178, MSF-006, and Epsilon Gundam,
(all same story as above). But it includes the RX-79G mass production
Gundam, all RX-78 series (except -1 and FA-78 which I don't know if it exist
in any written material), all MSZ-006 Zeta line, the S series, ZZ, Nu, Xsi,
the V line, the F90 line, and even the Hyaku Shiki, and Rick Dias (which are
also called Delta and Gamma Gundam respectively), as well as the RGZ.

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