Alfred Urrutia (
Mon, 17 May 1999 20:20:11 -0700 (PDT)

On May 17, 7:17pm, -Z- wasted bandwidth discussing:
> Subject: Re: [gundam] Superhuman pilot boyz
> At 01:48 5/17/1999 -0400, you wrote:

> It concerns me a great deal that America is deemed responsible and held
> accountable for the actions of NATO. Last time I flew with NATO troops, we
> Americans had to use NATO equipment and follow NATO Rules of Engagement
> (ROE) under the command of NATO officers. These officers are as likely to
> be from Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Britain, Iceland (which was where
> I was serving at the time), Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, or
> Portugal as from the U.S. Serving with NATO is even worse than seriving
> with the U.N. Peacekeepers in that regard.

This fact alone burns me every time I see it in the news. Everyone looks
at this like it's America's war, like the French and English and whatever
are just there to clean the wings of our strike jets or something. Any
hodgepodge of military units is a recipe for getting innocents hurt. I'm
amazed they work as smoothly as they do.

> So what's *your* solution?
> If Milosevic has his way, the refugees will never be allowed back except as
> slave labor with a short life expectancy. I can guarantee you that not
> many of them know English and none of them know Cantonese. If they can't
> return to their homeland, where then shall they go?

Which is an interesting no-win, really. NATO does nothing, he walks over
everybody, ejects unwanted, kills off soldier-age males, takes the land,
the whole thing. Asshole, but no countries get in the middle of it. If
NATO *does* do something about it, will it work? Airstrikes by themselves
will only convince that guy to defy the member nations. Very Saddam, that
one. If NATO does nothing then some other bastard starts thinking he can
pull the same moves with the undesireables in his area and we've got every
bigotted group in power stepping on every minority around them that they've
been itching to beat on.

The best is if the U.S. votes not to help then we can expect a chorus of
"fuck you"s from other nations later should we ever ask for help.

> But before you start in on what *America* should be doing, I'll remind you
> that this is a *NATO* operation and the French (who have no love for the
> Albanians) have just as much say as the U.S. about how this operation is
> conducted.

If this were a U.S./British operation only, with no countries getting in the
way, like Russia, this mess would be much farther to being cleaned up. But
it would have to be a real drag out war, not airstrikes. Tanks, choppers,
the whole deal. Lots of our guys die. Who here wants that? They aren't
*that* sympathetic to Kosovo's cause, whether those genocidal psychos deserve
it or not. People forget what a pigfuck a real war is to the grunts.

Many countries look to us for help when they get shit on yet tsk tsk us for
being heavy handed sometimes in our dealings. We're not known as the best
negotiators on the planet, we're known for having the best military punch on
the planet. I especially enjoy listening to other dignitaries beseech us to
negotiate more. What, months on end weren't enough? Another week is going
to make a difference? What good are negotiations then if there's no hard
deadline? They piss on the deadline then they should expect the "or else"
clause to take effect. I would.


"Besides, you'd have to have 20 different encryptions for 'dick' or
 they'd crack it in a day."

- Shannan, on encryption difficulties

Alfred Urrutia - Disney FA - 818.526.3338 - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - Gundam Mailing List Archives are available at

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