Re: [gundam] yipes, here's some philosophical babble for ya! (was: turn-A and UC)

Der UberHanyok (
Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:27:50 -0400

ack.. I better close this thing up before it blows my mind... the weekend's
starting, anyways.

Alfred wrote:

> What you hold to be "right" has got nothing to do with anyone else. My point
> tax the resources we have? Vegetarian or not? Right for you or me and right
> for a nation are two entirely different mindsets.

I agree completely. The only problem here, I think, is that people aren't
tolerant of others - I've had a number of VERY unpleasant run-ins with so-called
"christian fellowship groups" who've disliked me because I don't think exactly
what they do. Occasionally I go to the one on campus but even then there's a
sort of restriction. The worst part though, is that some of them just won't
leave me alone now... there's got to be at least three different people
attempting to "save my soul" in different ways... it gets old really quick.

> Great idea. But to get it off the ground you would *require* a ruling body
> to enforce, at least until everyone was on the same page. It would take
> generations to get to the point of doing away with overseers. Who gets to
> build this society? Do we all get to vote on the noble ideals or will they
> be handed down? Some people will fight to the death that idea simply because
> they aren't the ones picked to make the decisions. More wars.

Again, I agree. Of course, in such cases a war would seem inevitable (although I
hate the way that sounds), and people are bound to complain about something.
[Beware of stupid people in large groups.] I have yet to understand why it is
people HAVE to have it their way, yah sure Burger King is nice but dammit we
don't all like the same toppings on our lunch. (I hope that metaphor wasn't too

> Well, you are confusing two layers of life, your personal actions and the
> actions of the group you're in. Sure, easy enough to blow off rules and

I've never seen a difference between my personal life or my public life; most
people I know share this viewpoint. (not about me, I mean about their own

> laws that you don't agree with. If everyone shares your newfound freedom,
> though, you'll quickly run into someone who has little use for laws that
> prevent assault or theft or something else that you hold to be "noble" yet
> maybe he could care less about or he believes in a more "survival of the
> fittest" philosophy so, in his eyes, it is "right" for him to cull you
> from the herd. Or his god has no tolerance for your heretical life.

yeah, but then again, I was talking about a society based on ideals of
generosity and kindness... (sometimes being an idealist gets me into trouble, by
the way) I don't really think this person would fit into that picture,
especially if he wants to kick my ass. ;-)

> Nazis (not Germans) felt that Jews were not human. Couldn't convince them
> otherwise, either. Inside their group, they were "right". Outside, they
> were murderers. I'd like to see how far you would have gotten in an
> argument with them, how open you would have found their minds. We still

I've often heard people say about history "It's not so much the 'what' or the
'how' or the 'where,' but rather, the question is 'why?' " I've never accepted
"because it is that way" or "because I said so" (or similar variations) as an
acceptable answer to any question. I can tell you right now I wouldn't like any
of 'em, but I'd fail to see how such reasoning could make sense to them. Same
goes for any other type of racist belief.

> have people living who believe the Earth is flat and that NASA footage is
> nothing but special effects to fool the rest of us.

heheh, you know its funny, scientifically I'm convinced that the world is round,
after all... the proof is there. However, I've never actually seen it for
myself. To quote someone from my absolutely favorite Anime Series: "there's an
old earth saying, 100 travel books aren't worth a single trip."

> Understand, I'm not trying to dissuade you, I'm trying to give you more of
> the info you'd need to reconcile you're idea with the world at large. I
> had a pretty simple outlook to the world and other people until I started
> in this cg effects industry. I've met a lot of great people from other
> countries and now I see how recockulous some of my assumptions were.

The thing is, I'm quite sure that most of my assumptions about people are
wrong - that doesn't really mean much to me though. I've always hated it when
people got into big arguments over minor details and such... a 'pretty simple
outlook' makes much more sense to me than worrying about some trivial detail.
(no offense intended to you guys who figured out the timeline for Gundam 0080,
but I just didn't care - it's a story dammit, not a documentary.)

> College is no substitute for real world experience.
> Alfred.

amen to that!

Richie wrote:

> dunno...while I agree that money is evil in a sense, it is a necessary
> evil. It allows for a better system of trade rather than barter or use of
> favors. It also puts a system of value for services and goods, which makes
> it easier for trade of service for service, goods for goods.

<see aboce comment about "generosity"> - but as I've said, I'm an idealist. I'm
not particularly fond of some aspects of reality.

> reaction starts, it will be very hard to undo. anarchy presupposes that
> people are basically good.
> Well, a good number aren't. that's the reason why egalitarian and
> socialist ideas fell too. they always assumed certain traits about people.
> never assume.

yeah, I hear ya. It would seem though, that the best ideas are based on
assumptions, eh?

> YUP! though the law may be ridiculous, it is enforced by mutual
> agreement...don't like it? run for office! Or else leave the
> society/social group which enforces these unpleasant laws, and look for
> another which will conform to your liking and which will accept you.

I could run away to the mountains, become a zen buddhist monk maybe. Seriously.
(uh, I really don't know anything about zen buddhism... if that offended anyone
I'm dreadfully sorry.)

> NO such thing as luck, only chance. whatever luck you have you make
> yourself. As for the world...ain't no such thing as should be or must be,
> only is...whatever should be's and must be's are in the mind of people,
> useless if not acted upon to become a reality.

sounds like somethin' I've said to my book.

> define noble. that is where the trouble starts. You're talking about
> global "lifeboat" right there and you kill all the old people and
> the injured and the overflowing children, selecting from the undesirables
> only those of the noblest intellect and abilities, like artists and
> geniuses and scientists. The rest, I surmise would be the best of the
> genetic pools.
> That makes my skin crawl. who's to make the decision? whose standards?

eh, actually I was thinking along the lines of "good" people, but that's another
undefinable term. you see, just because scientisit are smart doesn't mean
they're noble... I'm thinking more along the lines of people with "common sense"
(another undefinabe one? oh boy...) and wisdom/knowledge... plus a little
blissful innocence. That said, old people and children would most likely be the
last to go. Although, don't take my word for it, I just think children are
better off because they don't know / don't care.

> Richard Ramos

Matt "the voice of flawed logic" Hanyok
"The more you know, the less you understand." - Tao te Ching

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